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Freedom of Religion? [message #354134]

Sun, 12 October 2008 07:25

Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006

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another of spoony's "had a thought..." moments; strap yourself in, because it might be a bumpy ride.

it should be fairly evident that i'm a secularist. now, the first thing secularists usually say when advancing their arguments is something along the lines of "of course have freedom of religion, but..."

here's a question. why is it freedom of religion? why isn't it opinion or belief? let's start from the assumption that in any society that wants to call itself modern and free, you can't have thoughtcrime. orwell put the name to what must be the most extreme form of totalitarianism and dictatorship; the idea that you can be convicted because of what you think, what you privately want. that must be inalienable. (i could digress and say that several religions do teach that thoughtcrime is indeed a crime, Islam and Christianity being the most obvious examples... once again one side of the chess game says you aren't allowed to move on his side of the board... but that's besides the point.

actually, no, it isn't)

but religion isn't just what you think; it's generally a combination of thoughts AND actions. sometimes those actions are clearly in violation of laws and what are generally considered to be morals... i'll just pluck the islamic commandment to kill homosexuals as an example, it's as good as any. well, if we have freedom of religion... don't we have to allow them to do so? oh dear...

so why isn't it freedom of opinion or of belief rather than freedom of religion? you cannot allow religious freedom without severely hampering a whole bunch of human rights and democratic principles...

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[Message index]

		Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:25
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:32
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:36
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Ryu on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:41
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:47
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:39
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Sun, 12 October 2008 09:23
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:24
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 09:48
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Mon, 13 October 2008 04:27
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 13 October 2008 06:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Mon, 13 October 2008 09:54
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 13 October 2008 10:13
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Tue, 14 October 2008 13:31
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 14 October 2008 13:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Tue, 14 October 2008 14:06
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 14 October 2008 15:16
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 14 October 2008 21:01
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 12 October 2008 10:03
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 10:07
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 11:54
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 12:12
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: jnz on Sun, 12 October 2008 12:55
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 13:34
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:30
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:37
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:41
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:46
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:58
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 15:06
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Canadacdn on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:50
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 12 October 2008 22:37
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Mon, 13 October 2008 04:35
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 13 October 2008 09:36
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Ryu on Mon, 13 October 2008 04:50
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 13 October 2008 10:30
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Rocko on Mon, 13 October 2008 19:35
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 13 October 2008 21:51
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 14 October 2008 15:05
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 14 October 2008 21:26
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 14 October 2008 23:08
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 15 October 2008 09:12
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Wed, 15 October 2008 10:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Wed, 15 October 2008 08:10
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 15 October 2008 08:55
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 15 October 2008 17:12
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Thu, 16 October 2008 05:19
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 16 October 2008 12:23
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Tue, 11 November 2008 10:47
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Rocko on Wed, 15 October 2008 19:24
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Muad Dib15 on Wed, 15 October 2008 20:30
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Quackpunk on Sat, 18 October 2008 17:20
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Ryan3k on Sat, 18 October 2008 18:25
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Quackpunk on Tue, 21 October 2008 22:26
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Hitman on Thu, 11 December 2008 08:45
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Thu, 11 December 2008 09:02

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