Home » Renegade Discussions » Mod Forum » Need a coder for a balance patch
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307376 is a reply to message #307370] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 11:37   |
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Spoony
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General (3 Stars)
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| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 12:21 |
Just because they give off less points now doesn't make them any more of a counter.
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uh yes, it does.
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 12:21 |
An APC is still going to kill one in seconds regardless of how many point it gives away. A ramjet is still going to run away from a LT regardless of how many point it gives away. It's great that the game is more balanced now in terms of points, but that doesn't change the balance in terms of damage.
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it changes the balance in terms of balance. before the pointsfix, ramjets had no counter - they didn't really need to damage heavy vehicles in a big game, chances are someone else would - but the ramjet still strips them for points. even just one ramjet would allow the defending team to be ahead on points, which is a long way away from being balanced.
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 12:21 |
If you changed it so Artillery gained no point for attacking buildings, would you not still use them in a community match? Of course you would, because they're excellent at killing buildings and the objective is base kill.
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why are you even asking that? Why should artillery get no points for damaging buildings when everything else does?
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 12:21 |
If you're a ramjet, the objective is killing infantry (moreso now because of the point fix, the objective never should have been whoring points from vehicles), and they're far too effective at it.
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considering their cost, they really aren't.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307385 is a reply to message #307379] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 11:53 |
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Spoony
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| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 12:47 |
The objective of the game is base kill. Points are only supposed to be a representation of how much you contributed towards killing the other teams base, or a backup for when neither team could kill the base. Although that was far from the case for the most part before the points fix, it still doesn't change anything that will aide or hinder either team from completing the main objective.
I think you're trying to focus too much on the points aspect of this game. It should be balanced to the point where the game would run smoothly and properly without points at all.
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that's a completely flawed assertion, simply because Westwood specifically designed the game to have a time limit. unless that time limit's disabled, it is categorically false to say that basekill is everything and points is nothing but a "backup". you may as well say ped beacon is the objective and if your team couldn't ped beacon, settling instead for mere basekill as a "backup" (your word, not mine), you failed.
and if, after playing Renegade for 5-6 years, anybody can not realise the colossal benefit sieging offers towards the "main objective" then I really don't know where to start
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307387 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 11:56 |
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A ramjet who picks off basics makes no money, so to speak.
Cost to ramjeter - 1000
Cost to opposing team - 0
Not worth it until you kill something that cost money...
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2008 11:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307426 is a reply to message #307385] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 15:10 |
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Renx
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| Spoony wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 14:53 |
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 12:47 |
The objective of the game is base kill. Points are only supposed to be a representation of how much you contributed towards killing the other teams base, or a backup for when neither team could kill the base. Although that was far from the case for the most part before the points fix, it still doesn't change anything that will aide or hinder either team from completing the main objective.
I think you're trying to focus too much on the points aspect of this game. It should be balanced to the point where the game would run smoothly and properly without points at all.
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that's a completely flawed assertion, simply because Westwood specifically designed the game to have a time limit. unless that time limit's disabled, it is categorically false to say that basekill is everything and points is nothing but a "backup". you may as well say ped beacon is the objective and if your team couldn't ped beacon, settling instead for mere basekill as a "backup" (your word, not mine), you failed.
and if, after playing Renegade for 5-6 years, anybody can not realise the colossal benefit sieging offers towards the "main objective" then I really don't know where to start
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You don't need to max out the vehicle limit on artillery to siege. Other vehicles are capable of damaging buildings as well.
I never said it was nothing, and saying that it's a backup certainly doesn't imply that. There's a lot of different elements in Renegade's gameplay, and to work well together they should first have to work well on their own.
~Canucck
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307438 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 15:39 |
=HT=T-Bird
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Registered: June 2005
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Colonel |
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OK: @ Yrr, Jerad, and Friends: The reason why I am saying this is due to experiences where BIATCH cheaterbanned clients on servers with modified objects.ddb files. If you can pull it off in the presence of BIATCH, that's excellent. If you can't, well, there goes this patch attempt; BIATCH is simply too valuable of a cheat detection tool to throw away.
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307449 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 16:09 |
w0dka
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Registered: March 2006
Location: Leipzig, Germany
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The problem with Arts is not that they super uber. its just way more easy to strat from beginning with all out of artillwery then stopping those AE-Bastards. Then you will need teamplay. Canyon is a problem. true. what if someone close the hole in the wall to GDI base? maybe this would nod force into a more offensive gameplay.
The main problem breaking nods siege is that you have to get all out of a tiny entrance while artillerys with splash shooting you from all around the field. if the hole isn't there anymore nod is forced to camp in front of the gdi entrance. and then its the same to field. nod has direct fire GDI has diect fire.
oh and the basic soldiers... .let them be differet. as you pointed out with 0 cred startup... GDI needs a startadvantage or Nod never let them bring out their heavy, but expensive firepower (med).
rocketsoldier sounds fine but... autoaim isn't something i like. you can't do something against autoaim and it takes control from the player to the server. maybe i want this rocket go to this spot?
just say 3 rockets a magazin double damage.... or something else same dps but more bunch a hit. Yes it would become more devastive against inf... but 3rounds a mag ... you have to aim good or you're enemy will bring you down in downloadtime
Thanks.
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307450 is a reply to message #307387] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 16:14 |
w0dka
Messages: 181
Registered: March 2006
Location: Leipzig, Germany
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| CarrierII wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 10:56 |
A ramjet who picks off basics makes no money, so to speak.
Cost to ramjeter - 1000
Cost to opposing team - 0
Not worth it until you kill something that cost money...
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but taking out people cost time. one guy killing multiple enemys. yes. this free engineer don'T cost credits. but maybe he want to repair this building? or want to join a engieassault. Killing people also preventing them from getting money. everget shot 15 times in a row on mesa from a top above sniperwhore while you just want to get to your tank/repair this building/disarm zthis beacon?
Thanks.
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307521 is a reply to message #307426] |
Thu, 03 January 2008 02:45 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Renx wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 09:10 |
You don't need to max out the vehicle limit on artillery to siege. Other vehicles are capable of damaging buildings as well.
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I fail to see what point you're trying to make with this statement. Artillery should be limited because they aren't the only vehicle capable of damaging a building...?
| Renx wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 09:10 |
I never said it was nothing, and saying that it's a backup certainly doesn't imply that.
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Your statement implied that victory by points is somehow not really a victory compared to victory by basekill. It is not.
| w0dka wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 09:10 |
The problem with Arts is not that they super uber. its just way more easy to strat from beginning with all out of artillwery then stopping those AE-Bastards. Then you will need teamplay.
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Wow, if you don't know what you're talking about then just don't. Artillery without teamplay is RIDICULOUSLY easy for GDI to counter.
| w0dka wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 09:10 |
Canyon is a problem. true. what if someone close the hole in the wall to GDI base? maybe this would nod force into a more offensive gameplay.
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Won't fix the problem. GDI still won't be able to leave base, Nod will still end up winning by points. They'll win by less, but they'll still win. The hole in the wall isn't the problem... starting credits and !donate are the problem.
| w0dka wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 09:10 |
oh and the basic soldiers... .let them be differet. as you pointed out with 0 cred startup... GDI needs a startadvantage or Nod never let them bring out their heavy, but expensive firepower (med).
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With these changes, GDI WILL STILL HAVE AN ADVANTAGE IN THEIR FREE INFANTRY. I don't know how many times I need to say this. GDI Soldiers will STILL own Nod soldiers and therefore give GDI a good chance of coming out favourably in the harv battles, Grenadiers will still be superior at attacking buildings externally (e.g. Field) and killing harvesters. It'll just mean that Nod Soldiers and Flamethrowers are actually somewhat comparable.
| w0dka wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 09:10 |
rocketsoldier sounds fine but... autoaim isn't something i like. you can't do something against autoaim and it takes control from the player to the server. maybe i want this rocket go to this spot?
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it's not autoaim, it's tracking - there's a difference. it'll only track if your reticle is exactly covering the target.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307544 is a reply to message #307174] |
Thu, 03 January 2008 05:32 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
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Colonel |
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BIATCH reads its values from the server's ammo and weapon definitions btw Yrr. However, what the client sends as a damage value is NOT changed apparently, and that's where the problems seem to begin in the case I saw.
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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