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a general strategy post [message #262306] Thu, 31 May 2007 18:02 Go to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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I wrote a few strategy guides a couple years back, and they basically hinged around one all-important principle. It's obvious to any good RTS player, but apparently way beyond most public-server players I seem to encounter in Renegade.
The enemy will have weapons, tanks and such. Disable them before you attack their base.

For example, City Flying. In a public server, you can be sure that 85% of the time Nod players will want to stank rush. The reason for this is they don't think far ahead. Imagine, if you will, that Renegade is a game of chess. Stank rushers are only thinking in terms of the immediate move - what piece they can capture (i.e. what building they can destroy). If the rush doesn't kill a building, it's basically an utter failure and you're back to square one - the players just try another rush. What's more, chances are you're actually somewhere below square one since GDI will have been able to operate unchallenged in the field. (This is thanks to the fact stanks don't hold the field and clear it of enemies, they AVOID enemies)
A better chess player will think about the repercussions of that move several moves hence. e.g. what if the stank rush fails? what is GDI doing right now? how likely is it they'll stop us?

A far better strategy is the light tank+sakuras+1 apache strat. This takes into account the fact that you want to be foiling GDI's plans, not simply avoiding them as stank rushers want to do. GDI will have meds and whatnot on the field, if they are wise. If the stank rush fails, by that time the meds will lock the Nod base down and having no tanks, you'll have an uphill struggle from that point on.
The light tank/sakura/apache strat is based on killing GDI's weapons first, before you think about taking a building out. The only counter to lights+sakuras+apache is for GDI to do exactly the counterpart: meds+havocs+an orca, and do it better. If GDI gets anything other than meds+havocs+one orca, you'll chew them up and spit them out. They certainly won't rush past you either.
Have better snipers than your opponent. Why? Once you take out the havocs, their Orca can't match your Apache and hope to win. Once the Orca is denied free movement, your Apache can help your lights take on the meds, and the meds will drop like flies. (When it comes to a mass tankfight such as this scenario, once one team starts losing they'll keep losing. So, don't be the team who starts losing - make sure you're co-ordinated, make sure you call your targets and focus fire all on the same tank at once, etc)

Once that's done, GDI will have very little in the way of firepower and very little in the way of money.

Then you start killing buildings. because at that point, they can't do much to stop you.

Like I said, most public-server players don't get this, but it is hands-down the top level of Renegade strategy. Many players misunderstand this. They see a player like myself use an artillery, they shout "pointwhore". What they don't realise is I'm not going for points. I'm aiming to take out GDI tanks and expensive infantry so my team is more likely to get basekill. A rush is far more likely to succeed if you take out their tanks first, it's a plain fact.
And even if the rushes fail and we don't get basekill, we'll win on points - that's the backup plan and it's being achieved in the process of trying to make plan A work.

That was probably unappealingly long-winded, but once you understand this principle and apply it to Renegade, you will win more games.

In a nutshell, the difference is this:
stank rush: "let's destroy a building"
lights+sakuras+apache strat: "let's create a situation where they can't stop us destroying a building"

The difference is subtle but vital.


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Re: a general strategy post [message #262321 is a reply to message #262306] Thu, 31 May 2007 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
IR4p3dy0u is currently offline  IR4p3dy0u
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Hope you dont me adding something to this.

This also goes into effect on non-base defense maps, Complex for example. GDI rushes with 2 apcs, which can take down an arty, plus control the strip, public server players tend to yell kill whore, but thats not the case, its a simple strategy of controlling the opposing team.
Re: a general strategy post [message #262326 is a reply to message #262321] Thu, 31 May 2007 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FrAM is currently offline  FrAM
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IR4p3dy0u wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 06:33

Hope you dont me adding something to this.

This also goes into effect on non-base defense maps, Complex for example. GDI rushes with 2 apcs, which can take down an arty, plus control the strip, public server players tend to yell kill whore, but thats not the case, its a simple strategy of controlling the opposing team.


however on complex you have to be aware of sbh rush
Re: a general strategy post [message #262332 is a reply to message #262326] Thu, 31 May 2007 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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you really don't.

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Re: a general strategy post [message #262376 is a reply to message #262306] Fri, 01 June 2007 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
puddle_splasher is currently offline  puddle_splasher
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MaidenTy1 wrote on Thu, 31 May 2007 20:02

Like I said, most public-server players don't get this.


Very true, especially in the 40+ servers. Most players want to do their own thing, regardless of what happens to other players, buildings, tanks or soldiers. Angry

Your strategy will prove successful in a small clan war, that is almost guaranteed. Big Ups
Re: a general strategy post [message #262384 is a reply to message #262306] Fri, 01 June 2007 06:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I cannot agree more with Maiden's post. It is absolutely frustrating to see people in the public servers without even the basic skills. The most depressing thing is, there are so many of them that they compromise the strategy of the good players.

It proves that there are so many people who have recently bought Renegade or they have not spent much time playing it.

To me for example, the thing that makes me angry is this: people doing something in-game that they are not really good at. Why buy a Med tank when you don't even know how to drive backwards? Why buy a tank when you don't understand the concept of splash damage? But yet, they insist on doing what they want and in the end manage to compromise the overall team strategy.

Take for example the stank. As you said, the average stank driver's only concern is a rush...it depresses me to see that is all they can understand. The stank is a great weapon but it has its limitations. But if the field was to be controlled, stanks can be used effectively to kill every enemy vehicle.

Years of playing Renegade without missing a day have taught me many things. there are simple concepts that most stank drivers don't understand:

> The element of surprise: they are invisible...so why not use that to your advantage and get behind that Med or Mammoth tank and then attack it? Yet, they insist on attacking the Med head on and get killed.

There were times when I could only wish I had a like-minded stank driver with me in a two-man team...using surprise and speed to control the field but I can only wish.

But this strategy, as Puddle says, will definitely work in clans. But in public servers? Nope...unless there are enough skilled players.



[Updated on: Fri, 01 June 2007 06:31]

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Re: a general strategy post [message #262392 is a reply to message #262384] Fri, 01 June 2007 07:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
npadul30 is currently offline  npadul30
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Well if you told your team your plans, I am sure that someone would follow them, I know I would. But only if they made sense. Sarcasm

"He who conquers the past commands the future, he who commands the past conquers the future."

Nod Artillary Master
Re: a general strategy post [message #262399 is a reply to message #262392] Fri, 01 June 2007 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
puddle_splasher is currently offline  puddle_splasher
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npadul30 wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 09:13

Well if you told your team your plans, I am sure that someone would follow them, I know I would. But only if they made sense. Sarcasm


Why the need for sarcasm? The only time a plan truly works is if you are well known to your team-mates or you are on TS.

Getting someONE is of very little use in a Stank. Getting 4-6 of you in a public server will take out almost any building, particularly the BAR (no more Havocs,Moby or Sydneys), especially if you are all skilled and hitting only the building, after remaining invisible.

However as that is most of the vehicle limit, then it happens on very few occasions.
Re: a general strategy post [message #262447 is a reply to message #262384] Fri, 01 June 2007 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sadukar09 is currently offline  sadukar09
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IronBalls wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 08:30

I cannot agree more with Maiden's post. It is absolutely frustrating to see people in the public servers without even the basic skills. The most depressing thing is, there are so many of them that they compromise the strategy of the good players.

It proves that there are so many people who have recently bought Renegade or they have not spent much time playing it.

To me for example, the thing that makes me angry is this: people doing something in-game that they are not really good at. Why buy a Med tank when you don't even know how to drive backwards? Why buy a tank when you don't understand the concept of splash damage? But yet, they insist on doing what they want and in the end manage to compromise the overall team strategy.

Take for example the stank. As you said, the average stank driver's only concern is a rush...it depresses me to see that is all they can understand. The stank is a great weapon but it has its limitations. But if the field was to be controlled, stanks can be used effectively to kill every enemy vehicle.

Years of playing Renegade without missing a day have taught me many things. there are simple concepts that most stank drivers don't understand:

> The element of surprise: they are invisible...so why not use that to your advantage and get behind that Med or Mammoth tank and then attack it? Yet, they insist on attacking the Med head on and get killed.

There were times when I could only wish I had a like-minded stank driver with me in a two-man team...using surprise and speed to control the field but I can only wish.

But this strategy, as Puddle says, will definitely work in clans. But in public servers? Nope...unless there are enough skilled players.







meds really dont matter if u drive backwards or frontwards...its like 5mm shorter...plus u turn slower. but lights are another story...


Quote:

[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS


Quote:

[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.

Re: a general strategy post [message #262471 is a reply to message #262447] Fri, 01 June 2007 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
puddle_splasher is currently offline  puddle_splasher
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EKT-Sadukar wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 14:32

meds really dont matter if u drive backwards or frontwards...its like 5mm shorter...plus u turn slower. but lights are another story...


You do understand what he means or are you needing his sentiments clarified? Huh
Re: a general strategy post [message #262490 is a reply to message #262306] Fri, 01 June 2007 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sadukar09 is currently offline  sadukar09
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generally yes Very Happy

Quote:

[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS


Quote:

[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.

Re: a general strategy post [message #263041 is a reply to message #262490] Mon, 04 June 2007 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
npadul30 is currently offline  npadul30
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Actually, I would follow team coordniation, someone asked a gunner rush and it worked just fine on thoes 40 people servers. That is just the team work I am talking about!! Big Grin

"He who conquers the past commands the future, he who commands the past conquers the future."

Nod Artillary Master
Re: a general strategy post [message #263271 is a reply to message #263041] Tue, 05 June 2007 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
npadul30 is currently offline  npadul30
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Actually, in C&C_BunkersTS yesterday I was an enggineer in an stealth tank and I took out 8 med tanks and the GDI AGT without help, and no GDI was not a bunch a noob's.

"He who conquers the past commands the future, he who commands the past conquers the future."

Nod Artillary Master
Re: a general strategy post [message #263274 is a reply to message #263271] Tue, 05 June 2007 06:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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npadul30 wrote on Tue, 05 June 2007 14:45

Actually, in C&C_BunkersTS yesterday I was an enggineer in an stealth tank and I took out 8 med tanks and the GDI AGT without help, and no GDI was not a bunch a noob's.



if they weren't n00bs then you must have been hacking...Razz Wink


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Re: a general strategy post [message #263283 is a reply to message #263271] Tue, 05 June 2007 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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npadul30 wrote on Tue, 05 June 2007 08:45

Actually, in C&C_BunkersTS yesterday I was an enggineer in an stealth tank and I took out 8 med tanks and the GDI AGT without help, and no GDI was not a bunch a noob's.

yes, they were.


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icon8.gif  Re: a general strategy post [message #263329 is a reply to message #263283] Tue, 05 June 2007 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
npadul30 is currently offline  npadul30
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WHAT?????I was not, I have no clue even how to hack!!! Angry They were noob's but they also were being stupid. I just simply took them out and they slow so I was taking my time taking out the AGT.
index.php?t=getfile&id=3489&private=0
  • Attachment: gdi.jpg
    (Size: 0.94KB, Downloaded 333 times)


"He who conquers the past commands the future, he who commands the past conquers the future."

Nod Artillary Master
Re: a general strategy post [message #263337 is a reply to message #263329] Tue, 05 June 2007 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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npadul30 wrote on Tue, 05 June 2007 20:27

WHAT?????I was not, I have no clue even how to hack!!! Angry They were noob's but they also were being stupid. I just simply took them out and they slow so I was taking my time taking out the AGT.
index.php?t=getfile&id=3489&private=0



My point wasnt that you were hacking.

My point was that they must have been n00bs for:

A: not killing you

B: not repairing the AGT

if they did try to do this and fail, they are n00bs.

If they tried this and were pros, yet you were still successful, you'd have been hacking.

do you get me?


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Re: a general strategy post [message #263356 is a reply to message #262306] Tue, 05 June 2007 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sadukar09 is currently offline  sadukar09
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isnt bunkersTS only have guard towers? Huh

Quote:

[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS


Quote:

[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.

Re: a general strategy post [message #263452 is a reply to message #262306] Tue, 05 June 2007 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tunaman
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BunkersTS doesn't even have an AGT lol!

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9055/tunamanlmao.png
Re: a general strategy post [message #263462 is a reply to message #263452] Tue, 05 June 2007 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sadukar09 is currently offline  sadukar09
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Ralphzehunter wrote on Tue, 05 June 2007 17:43

BunkersTS doesn't even have an AGT lol!

thats what i just said!


Quote:

[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS


Quote:

[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.

Re: a general strategy post [message #263463 is a reply to message #263462] Tue, 05 June 2007 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tunaman
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EKT-Sadukar wrote on Tue, 05 June 2007 19:26

Ralphzehunter wrote on Tue, 05 June 2007 17:43

BunkersTS doesn't even have an AGT lol!

thats what i just said!

You asked a question, I stated a fact. Wink


http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9055/tunamanlmao.png
Re: a general strategy post [message #263616 is a reply to message #263463] Wed, 06 June 2007 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
npadul30 is currently offline  npadul30
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Well, they did shoot at me but I repaired myself. And I am talking about the map that is Skirmish00, it was redone to be a C&C_ map I guess. They did try to repair the AGT execpt it was one enggy. and they were doing a lame job.

"He who conquers the past commands the future, he who commands the past conquers the future."

Nod Artillary Master
Re: a general strategy post [message #263707 is a reply to message #262306] Wed, 06 June 2007 13:59 Go to previous message
sadukar09 is currently offline  sadukar09
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its called Under....

Quote:

[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS


Quote:

[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.

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