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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300385 is a reply to message #300378] |
Sat, 01 December 2007 14:22   |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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You just suck with it, and quit bumping everything.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300464 is a reply to message #300378] |
Sat, 01 December 2007 22:04 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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APCs are one of the best base defense/harassment vehicles in the game. They have the armor to pick fights with tanks, but are faster, more agile, and better against infantry and aircraft than tanks are.
Because of that armor, an APC can act as an upgraded hummer/buggy; snipers don't do jack shit to their armor- which makes them far better choices for going out and nibbling on the harvy or plinking at other vehicles. The range of the gun and the speed of its projectiles allows the APC to engage Orcas and Apaches before they can close and return fire- and since most pilots will run off and repair as soon as they suffer any damage, an APC driver with good reflexes can suppress the enemy's air support just as effectively as any sniper- while filling other roles as well.
On defense, APCs can runa round the base relatively quickly due to their speed, which makes them very good at locating beacons- then their gun allows them to provide cover for whoever responds to disarm the beacon (since jumping out of the vehicle in that situation, unless you've booby-trapped it, is a sure-fire way to get it stolen). It is fairly easy to shoot or run down invading infantry with an APC, and in a pinch you can plant the vehicle in the path of an incoming rush, jamming up the whole column and allowing your team a few moments to prepare- and a few more moments for your Ob/AGT to shoot the intruders, if you have it. An APC is also the single best defense against an enemy APC- it alone has the maneuverability and the speed to intercept and block it- again, especially helpful on maps with Ob/AGT.
APCs are wonderful for delivering infantry to the enemy base, but they're more than capable of kicking ass in other roles- as long as you use them right. If you don't use that agility to evade tank shells or if you spray bullets all over the place instead of focusing on a single target at a time, you'll die and waste your money having accomplished nothing. However, if you do make effective use of the vehicle, you will be a great help to your team. Using an APC that way won't win you MVP, but it will keep the enemy from scoring a whole mess of points by preventing the destruction of your base, hampering enemy midfield actions (harvy raiding, snipers, aircraft, etc), and supporting tanks (killing off the infantry so your tanks don't have to waste their shells doing so). SO while you won't contribute a lot of points in one way, your actions will have a direct and negative effect on the enemy- which helps your team out-score or outright defeat that enemy.
In short, the APC is fast, agile, armored, and armed for a reason. Remember how effective groups of APCs were in TD, even without infantry hanging about? They're just as handy to have around in Ren, even when they're not being used as taxis. It's nice to have one or two available for rushes every now and then, but that's hardly the only reason you should consider buying one.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300783 is a reply to message #300484] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 13:20 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Surth wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 03:19 |
If Pointfix is not activated you can use then. If it isnt, their pretty much have no use.
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There's more to using it than shooting a machine gun at a Mammoth Tank all day.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300787 is a reply to message #300784] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 13:23 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Surth wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 14:22 |
No.
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Then you sir obviously haven't played Renegade.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300795 is a reply to message #300793] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 14:01 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Surth wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 14:54 |
you dont even argue, you just say things without backing them up.
Give me an Example where you really need an APC
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APC rush? Defending enemy beacon site so your Techs and engies can repair without worry. Fast transportation, planting your own beacon, get near dead team mates from front lines to base. I could go on.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300797 is a reply to message #300796] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 14:19 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2500
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 2
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Surth wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 14:54 |
you dont even argue, you just say things without backing them up.
Give me an Example where you really need an APC
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1. Anti-infantry weapon (especially on maps with no base defenses).
2. Good for blocking enemy rushes into your base.
3. Good for destroying the Harv over the course of the game (not for the points but to cripple enemy economy).
4. Parking on top of beacons so they can't be disarmed.
5. Did I forget rushes into enemy base?
7. Also good for spraying bullets everywhere to find stealth units.
| Surth wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 15:11 |
apc rush fails most of the time. beacons arent used very often and can be covered with any other vehicle just as good.
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They fail because they are poorly executed. Just because many APC's rushes fail DOES NOT mean APC's are useless.
While any vehicle can cover beacons, APC's are a tough nut to crack and are also faster than the next vehicle that can effectively cover beacons.
NOTE: Renegade has a well-written logic behind it. You need to understand that this logic is disambiguous on purpose so that players can form their own strategies and thus further the gameplay. If everyone, like you do, thought that Renegade should only be played in a certain way, then the game would have died off a long time ago.
Oh I forgot:
[Updated on: Mon, 03 December 2007 14:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300798 is a reply to message #300378] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 14:25 |
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Herr Surth
Messages: 1684
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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If everyone, like you do, thought that Renegade should only be played in a certain way, then the game would have died off a long time ago.
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well, Renegade has some Balancing flaws, because some units are just not useful in any way. I mean, why bother using a patch when there are 10 units that DO THE JOB BETTER? Exactly the same with APCs, Meds/Lights are almost always more useful then APCs.
[Updated on: Mon, 03 December 2007 14:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300812 is a reply to message #300798] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 15:07 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Surth wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 15:25 |
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If everyone, like you do, thought that Renegade should only be played in a certain way, then the game would have died off a long time ago.
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well, Renegade has some Balancing flaws, because some units are just not useful in any way. I mean, why bother using a patch when there are 10 units that DO THE JOB BETTER? Exactly the same with APCs, Meds/Lights are almost always more useful then APCs.
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Uh slow?
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300821 is a reply to message #300812] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 15:39 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2500
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 2
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General (2 Stars) |
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| sadukar09 wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 16:07 |
| Surth wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 15:25 |
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If everyone, like you do, thought that Renegade should only be played in a certain way, then the game would have died off a long time ago.
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well, Renegade has some Balancing flaws, because some units are just not useful in any way. I mean, why bother using a patch when there are 10 units that DO THE JOB BETTER? Exactly the same with APCs, Meds/Lights are almost always more useful then APCs.
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Uh slow?
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And can't carry 3 passengers. LOL
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| Re: APC`s waste of money or the best tactic??? [message #300829 is a reply to message #300378] |
Mon, 03 December 2007 16:39 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Meds and Lights are great, but they...
A. Can't kill aircraft worth a damn because of slow projectiles.
B. Are slower in both speed and turning.
C. Can't track fast-moving targets such as close-up infantry due to slow turret rotation speed.
D. Can't shoot anything that is right next to them because the gun barrel sticks out too far.
Given a team that has everything pretty well covered, I'll take a Med or a Light any time- they're more useful against armor and buildings, and can still pick off infantry fairly well at medium-long range- and the extra armor is nice to have in a stand-up fight. And, let's face it- you'll score a lot higher in a tank as compared to an APC, and even the most selfless player likes to have a high score when possible. However, tanks just can't effectively fill all of the same roles an APC can- for reasons I already stated in my last post.
APCs are ideal for mobile defensive and midfield harassment roles; tanks are great attackers and main combatants. The two types of vehicle fill different roles, so it isn't a matter of one being overall better than the other. When the situation calls for a fast, versatile unit with a highly accurate weapon, you buy an APC. When the situation calls for firepower and armor, you buy a tank. Use the wrong vehicle in the wrong situation, and you'll have a harder time getting the job done- it's as simple as that.
The only truly useless vehicle in Ren is the transport chopper. Even Buggies and Hummers have their place as early rushers/harassers and cheap defense (though an APC fills all the Buggy/Hummer's roles far more effectively). A team without at least one full time APC driver is as hobbled as a team lacking tanks or MRLS/Arty. A team that has that APC playing against a team that doesn't will usually come out on top, provided the driver isn't a suicidal dumbass.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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