Renegade Public Forums
C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Questions I would like to pose to athiests
Re: Questions I would like to pose to athiests [message #466713 is a reply to message #466703] Thu, 26 April 2012 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
fredcow9 is currently offline  fredcow9
Messages: 32
Registered: December 2005
Karma:
Recruit
Quote:

[b]Spoony: so you're ok with the instruction for genocide if another town worships another god, or the instruction of what to do if a friend or family member tries to tell you about a different religion?

If they are wicked yes. I still dont get this part and I would like some explaination.
Quote:

or the instruction of what to do if a friend or family member tries to tell you about a different religion?

Whats the famed biblical instruction?
[quote title=Quote:]
Quote:

2. it is permissible to deliberately slaughter children to frighten the adults in their society

The slaughtering of children was to show to what extent pharaoh would go to in holding Gods people and the fact that God could kill all the firstborns would prove that hes God because only God could do such a thing could he not?
The quoted question still doesnt really pertain to the Egyptian story. The point was not to frighten anyone but to show who is really who.


Quote:

i've already gone over the quite major problems with the concept of hell, the system of torture for not being the right religion that you have repeatedly defended. you had no response to any of them. shall i repeat them?

If you have a problem with the concept of gravity, its still going to exist and be an acting force. gravity does not care if you accept it or dont think gravity is a permissible thing. Its still there. You knowing its there are unexcused for jumping off a cliff and not expecting to fall.

Quote:

Not important enough to believe it himself, though Thumbs Up

So? the High priest according to the bible itself didnt believe Jesus was the son of God that was supposed to come. Many people you would have expected to believe simply did not despite miracles being performed right in front of their face. Instead theyd rather believe Jesus got his authority from demons in mat 12:24
Quote:

This is a Jewish man, apparently quite devout. He believes in Yahweh and the Jewish concept of an oncoming messiah (he thought it was some other guy at one point)... and he obviously didn't think Jesus was it.

As didnt many others. Saul of tarsus didnt believe Christ either till he hit the road to Damascus.

Quote:

easy tiger, i just asserted that he is not a contemporary of jesus. you can't seem to find any, can you?

He was alive a reasonable time afterwards and lived to probably see some of the people that actually saw Jesus face to face. thus why he wrote that
Quote:

And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive

This is not inheritable false and it just so happens that the same events he wrote are also written in the gospels/new testament.
Quote:

Quote:

If you think its been tampered with, what era did this occur? Who did the tampering or at least who had the most to gain by digging into his writings and changing the originals?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#Arguments_challenging_authenticit y


I dont need an overview for argument of Jesus not being authentic from wikipedia. Lets talk specifics. What did you even want me to do with that?

Quote:

much, much later than that. josephus wasn't even born until after jesus is supposed to have died.

of course.
Quote:

he probably wrote this stuff half a century or so after jesus was supposed to have been crucified.

According to who? Also what time period is someone writing about a person after they existed can that not be trusted?
Quote:

They coincide with the writings of tacitus who wrote during Christ life up to about the 40s ad.

Quote:

eh? Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus (AD 56 – AD 117)? that Tacitus?

yes, 40+ 33= 73...

Quote:

Suppose for a moment that this was true. Why do you think this helps your case?

If the gospels can be trusted and they claim Jesus was the son of God then I have good reason to believe them especially considering.
Quote:

The Jewish authorities of the time - men who believed in God and believed in the messiah - they'd been propagating the messiah concept for centuries - did not think Jesus was it. And they were so angry that they wanted him silenced, and even killed. This helps your case? Really? If Jesus really was doing miracles and whatnot, they would have accepted him as the messiah.

You should read the interactions with the pharisees and Jesus. You will quickly discover they had the power and Jesus was literally striping it away from them and allowing the gentiles into Gods grace as well. You will notice the Jewish authority constantly brings up our father abraham and moses taught us this and that. The Jewish authority was flat our racist tbh.
Why would they automatically accept him as the messiah anyway? Why did the jewish disciples believe Jesus was the son of God and not deny it even unto death?
9/11 is one of the most witnessed events in history because of the major footage covered by it yet you have a division of people that think 9/11 was fake and then you have people that think 9/11 was legitimate. People will always believe or not believe what they wish regardless of evidence.
Quote:

They didn't. What say you to that? You think the Jewish authorities simply didn't know he was the messiah? Or you think they purposely had the messiah killed, which would have to be pretty fucking brave of them given what they believed about Yahweh in the old testament?

They expected Jesus to come and destroy the romans, slay all the non believers and grant the grace of God to the Jews only.
Jesus came in peace, preached humbleness, preached against their adopted customs at the time and really preached against everything the Jewish authority at the time stood for. They were really just evil men who wanted God all to themselves and no one else.
Quote:

(the god of the old testament kills people all the time for, like, nothing. what would he do to people who killed the messiah?)

They are probably enjoying the uber tropical weather.
Quote:

The apostles lived with broke bread with slept and did everything with Jesus. If your looking for an eyewitness account they are the best ones your going to get.

Quote:

It's true you can't seem to come up with a better one, discounting the Jewish authorities themselves. Or are they not eyewitnesses?

Wheres their discounting writings?

Quote:

....just the gospels or the whole bible?

For now just the gospels.
Quote:

quick summary
1. i don't believe any of the supernatural bullshit (including the existence of a god or the supernatural nature of Jesus). if it turned out that there really was a guy called jesus who did some preaching and got crucified, so what?

If a man claimed to be the son of God, died fullfilled prophecies the son of God was supposed to AND rose from the dead, thats someone Im willing to believe. You just sound like your not willing to believe no matter what. You would really fall in line with the pharisees at the time. unless im wrong and you would be convinced by direct witnessing.

Quote:

2. it obviously has nothing to teach me about morality. the good stuff i already knew, the bad stuff is - well, bad.

Gods image is in every man, everyone has some feeling of morality no matter how evil they really are.
Quote:

3. following on with the bad stuff, i could refer you to the stuff above, such as the concept of hell... which is a strong contender for the most evil idea anyone came up with.

According to what you think. You might also think the death penalty is cruel and unusual, but yet somewhere in the world people dont agree with you. Why do you assume that your 100% correct on your judgement other than you being the one making it?
Quote:

what a relief it is to think it's a lie. but then i'm not the target demographic, am i? the main targets for proselytising are children, and old/sick/dying people.

You disagree with the way God does things. So did Satan. Good luck. As for target demographic? everyone who doesnt believe is. I dont know why you would belittle a commandment to "go and make disciples of all nations" to old/sick/dying people and children.

Ill leave you with this to answer at some point
Quote:

Its quite undeniable that Jesus at the very least existed as a person. The fact the gospels align with these other writings is quite amazing, it shows that the things of Jesus were quite common knowledge for people in that area. The apostles didnt have an internet or public distribution center for their writings so its impossible for them to have based their writings on the gospel accounts and vice versa. Its always come down to if you belive hes the Christ he claimed to be. People will always deny he was, even the high priests of the Jews at the time did and continued to do so. The fact Christianity spread so rapidly and quickly, still surviving to today and its given history really stands testimony enough that the gospel writers are not lying, people acknowledged a man Christ had died and rose from the grave otherwise others in the time period would have written about the lunacy of all these christians worshiping a man that never existed.
since I just jumped in here, Im not going to answer the rest of your posts aimed at that guy of course unless you wish me to. I wont be dodging anything, as I expect you not to either.

EDIT: just wanted to add to this already long post what happened to the disciples and their associates.
Matthew - killed by stabbing as ordered by King Hircanus
James, son of Alphaeous - crucified
James, brother of Jesus - thrown down from a height, stoned and then beaten to death at the hands of Ananias (circa AD 66)
John - tortured by boiling oil, exiled to Patmos in AD 95
Mark - burned during Roman emperor Trajan's reign
Peter - crucified upside-down by the gardens of Nero on the Vatican hill circa AD 64
Andrew - crucified on an "X" shaped cross by Aegeas, governor of the Edessenes, around AD 80
Philip - stoned and crucified in Hierapolis, Phrygia
Simon - crucified in Egypt under Trajan's reign
Thomas - death by spear thrust in Calamina, India
Thaddaeous - killed by arrows
James, son of Zebedee - killed by sword in AD 44 by order of King Herod Agrippa I of Judea
Bartholomew - beaten, flayed alive, crucified upside down, then beheaded

^Find me in history ANY religion that claimed that God was in human form, walked amongst them, did not foribly take over or preach through force, written about by the sources of said religion and outside sources wrote and corroborate their story of the "god" that walked among them, the founders of said religion were also tormented and died still claiming that their "god" was god, in such ways as pointed out above and grew rapidly lasting to even this day.
 
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message icon10.gif
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Previous Topic: Like LOL!! Nakedness!
Next Topic: When did you become a Insert-Religion-Here?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Wed May 28 21:34:30 MST 2025

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.05203 seconds