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Re: Catholic adoption agencies and homosexuality [message #427313 is a reply to message #427304] Sat, 01 May 2010 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Altzan is currently offline  Altzan
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Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

you originally said it that if there's no afterlife, people can behave however they like because there won't be any consequences (a really odd thing to say... there are consequences for actions in this life too), and you implied that it's a selfish concept. well, what if there was an afterlife? you said this would mean that what you did in this life would have the purpose of getting you a good deal in the afterlife.


I didn't say that my motivation was "a good deal in the afterlife". I said that the cause of my actions will bring about that effect. Not my motivation.

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

What am I asking you to believe, and what am I threatening you with the most horrific punishment imaginable if you don't believe?


You're asking me to believe that there is no God (or my God, at least). Also, that Christianity is both false and evil.
On the list of requirements of what's needed to equal a belief, horrific punishment is not one of them.

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

Quote:

Spoony wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 05:57

Quote:

3) This is the only choice left...
If there was a time where only NOTHING existed, there would be NOTHING still, because something cannot come out of nothing. Since something obviously does exist, it must have ALWAYS existed... so what is it?

This can only get you as far as deism. It's an absolutely enormous jump to get from that position to theism, i.e. that you know the details of what created the universe. Furthermore, it obviously raises the much bigger question of where the deity came from, and I've never heard a religious person give anything but the most feeble guesswork answer to that.

Assuming you think it's feeble that a diety could have always existed.
Still, it's a step towards deism and away from atheism.

you'll notice that there is a "t" and a "h" but not a "d" in atheism.


I noticed. There's also an "a" which represents "anti".

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

Quote:

Spoony wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 05:57

i also can't help but laugh at this
Quote:

1)Everything is categorized as matter or mind... nothing else...so:
2) Something is eternal, as mentioned
3) That something must be either mind or matter
4) It cannot be matter, for matter is not eternal.
5) That eternal something must be "mind". There has been an eternal mind.

matter can't be eternal, and therefore we must be dealing with an eternal mind... lol.

Go ahead and laugh... I'll just sit back and wait for a rebuttal.

for starters, nobody's ever demonstrated that a mind exists or has ever existed without matter to back it up.
secondly, you say that not only could a mind be eternal, but that THIS MUST BE the case if what we're talking about is not matter. it's not X so therefore it's Y... it's a terrible way to reach a conclusion.


1) Nobody's ever demonstrated modern-day miracles or other Old Testament events either. Absence of evidence on that part isn't evidence of absence.
2) Normally, I'd agree on that algebraic view... but not until you can explain how there can be something that isn't X or Y... mind or matter.

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

Quote:

Spoony wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 05:57

Quote:

Spoony wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 05:43

Quote:

Spoony wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 05:58

Quote:

Also, here's another question:
"The creative power of the mind amounts to nothing more than the faculty of combining, transposing, augmenting, and diminishing the materials afforded to us by sense and experience." (David Hume)
Do you agree with this statement?

I can see why he said it, and I can see why a religious person would jump on it.

Ok. But do you think he is right, or wrong? It's not an opinion he's stating, it's a true or false fact.

Is it? I wouldn't have phrased it that way.

Now who's being evasive?

I don't accept that this is a yes-no question.

Logically, it is... so I don't see why you''re evading it, unless you just aren't sure.

I did not evade it.


Logically, it is a statement. It is either true or false. I asked you which you think it is. If you refuse to answer and give no reason other than "I don't accept that this is a yes-no question" then you are indeed evading it.

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

given the cruel and merciless depiction of god in the bible, why would the amount of evil in the world suggest that he ISN'T still around? i've never understood people who say: there can't be a god because of how fucked up the world is. they must be reading a different bible to the one i read.


Given how many Biblical quotes you've provided, you should have a pretty decent idea of what "sets God off", so to speak... and you've seen examples of what he does in response, in the OT... so, why isn't he responding much the same today?

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

Quote:

Starbuzzz wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 09:59

Altzan wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 04:55

Starbuzzz wrote on Mon, 26 April 2010 03:43

I was told god is watching your everymove and directly and indirectly interferes whenever possible. I guess you are going to challenge that too using the version you were taught with huh?

Of course... as I stated above. I'm "mind-boggled" that people still believe this.

What does your version of christianity say regarding where non-christians and casual christians will "go to" after death? What about satan?

What does this have to do with God's modern activities?

quite a lot. you say god isn't intervening in the modern world? i would think that subjecting humans to the worst punishment imaginable if they don't believe in him or disagree with his religion counts as intervening.


I don't see how an act of the afterlife counts as "modern-time".

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

Quote:

Starbuzzz wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 09:59

1) it does not make any sense to use the word "belief" to anything atheist.

Why not? Atheism isn't the absence of belief. It's a belief that no deity exists.

not necessarily.


Go on.

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

You say there are unicorns who created the world, and they wrote this book with rules for us to follow, and if we don't believe it or don't like it, we'll be tortured in the dungeon forever. I say I don't find that very convincing, and the rules are pretty crappy.
I do not have the same burden of proof as you. I'm not claiming to know how the world was created - simply saying that your explanation looks nothing more than fiction. More importantly, I'm not telling you that my boss will punish you for ever if you don't believe in him or don't like him. The sides of the coin are by no means equal.


That's exactly my point.
No matter how much you disprove Christianity (or try to), it won't make a difference if you don't have an alternative that you believe in.

NukeIt15 wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 14:29

Matter and energy did not simply "snap" into existence... that would be closer to the Judeo-Christian position, actually. In the beginning, there was nothing- sound familiar? The entire creation story in genesis opens with God pulling himself out of non-existence. God then proceeds to pull everything else in the universe out of non-existence. And yet somehow a Christian has difficulty accepting "something from nothing with no external influence." Where, exactly, was the external influence that allowed the creation of God? He gets a free pass, though, because he's omnipotent. Apparently that means that his omnipotence allowed him to create himself before he existed to do the creating. Circular logic- Q: How did God create himself? A: He is omnipotent. Q: How did God become omnipotent? A: By creating himself.


God didn't create himself, he was never created. He is eternal, while the universe is not.
Genesis doesn't open with God "creating himself", it opens with him creating Earth.

HaTe wrote on Sat, 01 May 2010 14:01

The universe has been here for as long as time has...which is forever. It's the things inside the universe that suddenly "appear" that are the real question. Sure there's all the scientific theory's out there on how a planet, a star, a galaxy, etc, etc. are formed, but there's also the religious part of it....Which for many is MUCH less complicated, and therefore many wish to choose to take the religious side of it. No one person or living creature suddenly started all of this obviously, as that would make NO sense. It can be a bit confusing, as the time line for time and the universe itself are infinitely extended, and therefore it's really hard to tell when exactly the first star, universe, or galaxy were created. In my opinion, we will never know, and neither will any living creature in the universe. It's a mystery that is basically impossible to get evidence to prove...so it cannot ever be solved.


Really? Most of the scientific community has accepted that the universe is not eternal.

I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire

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