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Re: Secular democracy [message #418011 is a reply to message #417999]

Tue, 19 January 2010 15:00

Spoony
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firstly, switzerland. it's a far less tolerant country than it's often portrayed to be, for example it was surprisingly recently they actually gave women the vote...

Starbuzzz wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 11:49

I am saying it is too early to push for a secular society...when religion is still strong. Religion seeks to only divide people and always wants more power. Always. Their quest for power will only stop/slow the progress towards a secular environment.

i would argue that this is why we're arguing in favour of secularism not too early, but far too late. well, not "too" late, but later than we should.

Quote:

If they want to build minarets then fine yes. But let's remember that this is the same group of people that cannot understand freedom of speech and expression and throw a violent protest everytime a cartoon is drawn; no one should be making any compromises to satisfy them and put up with their requirements.

I agree with not being forced to make compromises, but letting them build their own religious temples really isn't a compromise.

Quote:

I am just trying to point out that in the secularists eager bid to create a equal environment for everybody they are ending up creating a society that is divided into many tribes which in turn are afraid of offending each other/extra sensitive to each other. That imho is not a secular society.

now you've lost me.... "the secularists eager bid to create an equal environment for everybody"? you'll have to explain this a bit more clearly for me, i.e. who are you talking about and what are they doing?

Quote:

Every group within a society should be tolerant of each other; not just 1 group sucking up, appeasing, and trying to please and accomodate another vicious group. That imo is not secularism.

of course it isn't secularism.

nikki, off topic slightly but on the subject of education in britain, two things worth knowing.
1. daily prayer is compulsory (usually of a christian nature although we now have a load of islamic faith schools too)
2. the stupid bible myths are taught with the same level of certainty as what we were taught in history, geography, maths etc

by all means we should teach kids about religion for the same reason we should teach them about politics. but i've said before and i'll say again: it's immoral to do so dishonestly. for example, if you're teaching christianity to a kid, you'd better be telling him the bad points as well as the "good", e.g. the complete lack of evidence for its truthfulness, its indescribably evil track record throughout history etc

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[Message index]

		Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sat, 16 January 2010 19:43
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 16 January 2010 22:36
		Re: Secular democracy By: Altzan on Sat, 16 January 2010 22:45
		Re: Secular democracy By: NukeIt15 on Sun, 17 January 2010 00:24
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 08:03
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Sun, 17 January 2010 08:51
		Re: Secular democracy By: Sean on Sun, 17 January 2010 15:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:07
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:16
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:41
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Mon, 18 January 2010 09:09
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Sun, 17 January 2010 11:47
		Re: Secular democracy By: liquidv2 on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:26
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:27
		Re: Secular democracy By: liquidv2 on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:50
		Re: Secular democracy By: Canadacdn on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 23:25
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Mon, 18 January 2010 04:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Mon, 18 January 2010 21:17
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Tue, 19 January 2010 07:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Tue, 19 January 2010 07:45
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 10:49
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Tue, 19 January 2010 11:06
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Tue, 19 January 2010 15:47
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 19 January 2010 18:25
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 19:37
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Tue, 19 January 2010 21:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Tue, 19 January 2010 15:00
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Tue, 19 January 2010 16:10
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Wed, 20 January 2010 07:42
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Wed, 20 January 2010 09:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Wed, 20 January 2010 09:07
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Mon, 18 January 2010 06:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Mon, 18 January 2010 08:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Mon, 18 January 2010 20:11
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Tue, 19 January 2010 16:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 18:05
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 07:20
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 20 January 2010 08:39
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 13:52
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Tue, 19 January 2010 05:26
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 13:54
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:11
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:24
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:27
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:34
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Wed, 20 January 2010 17:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Thu, 21 January 2010 02:37
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Thu, 21 January 2010 03:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: JohnDoe on Thu, 21 January 2010 06:12
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Thu, 21 January 2010 06:39
		Re: Secular democracy By: slosha on Fri, 22 January 2010 11:33
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 22 January 2010 11:53
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:49
		Re: Secular democracy By: slosha on Fri, 22 January 2010 13:22
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Sat, 23 January 2010 01:30
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:04
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Fri, 22 January 2010 15:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 23 January 2010 10:44
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sat, 23 January 2010 11:44

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