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Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414346 is a reply to message #414296]

Thu, 17 December 2009 15:09

Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006

Karma:

General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator

ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 08:13

mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now.

this is another thing you always see from the anti-pointsfix brigade. whenever someone agrees with me, there's always some way of trying to dismiss what they say because there must be some ulterior motive for it, instead of the simple truth: "he thinks spoony's right"

GEORGE ZIMMER wrote

You do know that Spoony has tried for AGES to come to a compromise between people who want pointsfix and those who don't, right?

Guess who try the hardest to make the compromises? The pro-pointsfix crowd. The anti-pointsfix crowd does nothing but throw out retarded "insults", make up stupid terms they refuse to change (calling the pointsfix a "pointmod" and such), using nonsensical logic constantly (THE POINTSFIX IS BAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT ORIGINAL RENEGADE USED SO POINTSFIX IS BAD), and generally being assholes.

I see no reason why Spoony has to continue with the constant stream of bullshit. And people like you only further my opinion (which seems more and more to be a fact) of the anti-pointsfix crowd.

this is true and i've remarked upon it several times. i can and will go further on what the anti-pointsfix crowd likes to do: making up fake quotes and pretending i said them (THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A POINTSFIX DEBATE WHEN THEY DIDN'T TRY THAT!)

no matter how many times the anti-pointsfix crowd get caught lying to the community to try to win an argument, insult anyone who disagrees with them etc etc etc - meanwhile i'm the one going to absolutely incredible lengths to encourage debate, engage everybody's opinion and suggest all sorts of compromises, they still have the bollock-brained stupidity of portraying me as the ignorant, offensive one. it's like something from a lewis carroll novel, it really is.

SS wrote

These threads stopped being funny a long time ago.

1. Pointsfix makes public server gameplay better
2. Pointsfix creates more problems than it solves in clanwars

well, you might wanna try playing clanwars on the new system. four bugs are now fixed, and for the first time they've ALL been fixed. pointsbug, vehicle neutrality (i.e. jumping out of your tank before it dies), harv blocking, and mesa deadzones.

all the maps are now fair. mesa was the exception, but that's precisely because there was another glaring map issue that needed fixing too - and i said so right from the beginning. disallowing harvblock also completes the jigsaw; with no harvblocking and the original renegade points and economy system, we're finally seeing renegade as it was supposed to be in the first place.

creates more problems than it solves? well, you might have been around a couple of years ago when i had to make a certain new rule. you may remember it. certain players would always leave at the start of some maps if they got the "bad" side... maps like field, under, wallsfly. they'd always pretend that wasn't why they were leaving, but you knew it always was. i made a rule putting a stop to that... that rule would be totally unnecessary now because the maps are actually fair.

and here's another big point - every single clanwar has been won by the right team now. that certainly wasn't the case before. a few people like simpee and karmai have tried to give examples to the contrary, and they get refuted immediately every single time. of course, they never admit as much and they'd certainly never change their overall viewpoint based upon it, but hey.

HaTe wrote

all i said that is I will adjust to anything, as long as it is fair. Meaning that I will still play with the pointsfix, and i will not complain about it...

ah. i see where you're coming from. i'm much the same. i'll adjust to things as long as they're fair too... that's why i've been criticising the points bug for years, long before black-intel identified the code problem.

HaTe wrote

I just think that some certain things will take some getting used to, and that I personally don't see them necessary.

again, this is exactly why the points bug is such a big pile of shit and why the pointsfix ought to be implemented widely. the points bug teaches people really shitty habits to new players. i don't think anyone new to the game ought to be subjected to it when they could be playing the game the way it originally was (pointsfix, no harvblock etc).

this is a handy thought-exercise i proposed some time ago. give it a go. let's say the points bug never existed, and let's say someone like... pulling a name out of a hat here... simpee came along and suggested it.

imagine how the conversation would go. remember, everybody by this time is used to the original renegade points and economy system, the pointsfix.

simpee: hi guys, ive got an idea for a points mod.
spoony: go on?
simpee: it will mean you can get too many points for shooting tanks, and it will mean snipers and auto rifles can get points for shooting tanks even though they aren't doing damage.
spoony: ummm.... why?
simpee: i don't know.
spoony: but it doesn't make sense... why did you come to this conclusion?
simpee: you're asking a lot of questions.
spoony: so.... more points shooting tanks, eh?
simpee: well not exactly. here's the clever bit. ONLY WHEN THEY HAVE GREEN HEALTH! tadaa!!
spoony: why? if you think this is a good idea, why not when they have red/yellow health too?
simpee: shut up.
spoony: and why just tanks if this is the way you're thinking? why not infantry too? why not buildings as well?
simpee: there's something scary behind you!
spoony: is there any evidence that this is what was SUPPOSED to happen?
simpee: no, in fact all the evidence is the other way.
spoony: the maps right now are pretty fair... i'm worried that this will affect balance. do you think balance between nod and gdi will be improved by this?
simpee: are you kidding? i can't wait for easy wins on field, under and wallsfly as gdi.
spoony: what about the economy system? if you can get money for no reason too, isn't that a BAD thing for the game's economy system?
simpee: what were we talking about again?
spoony: and isn't this going to teach people bad habits? for example, if there's a tank threatening your base, might not this teach people to shoot it with an autorifle like an idiot instead of actually doing something to fend it off, or fix a building?
simpee: where am i?
spoony: what about individual score? if you can get points for no reason then doesn't that mean individual score is rather meaningless, and therefore the ladder will be devalued?
simpee: i sure hope so.
spoony: so in a nutshell... this idea of yours, this points mod... it doesn't make any kind of sense, it contradicts itself internally, it makes some maps unfair, it ruins the economy system, it devalues the game's ladder, it teaches people stupid habits, and it wasn't supposed to happen in the first place.... is that a fair assessment?
simpee: im gonna spend the next 2 years making up fake quotes and pretending u said them, thatll teach you for disagreeing with me
spoony: without trying to sound too disrespectful, how did you even manage to come up with such a stupid idea?
simpee: dunno, i think i dreamt it

After all that, do you think anyone would want the points bug? all of its effects on gameplay are bad. I think I might actually start calling that "the point mod" from now on. after all, that's pretty much exactly what it is. people may have noticed that recently i've started referring to the pointsfix by another term: "the original renegade points and economy system".

Unleash the Renerageâ„¢

Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful

[Updated on: Thu, 17 December 2009 15:13]

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		Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Tue, 08 December 2009 13:47
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		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:25
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		Re: beta test TT patch By: ELiT3FLyR on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:01
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Sat, 12 December 2009 00:46
		Re: beta test TT patch By: KobraOps on Wed, 16 December 2009 13:59
		Re: beta test TT patch By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 16 December 2009 15:24
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Wed, 16 December 2009 15:33
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 16 December 2009 17:29
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 16 December 2009 17:44
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:33
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:56
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Wed, 16 December 2009 20:09
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Sean on Fri, 18 December 2009 03:55
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 04:28
		Re: beta test TT patch By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:12
		Re: beta test TT patch By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 09:15
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 10:19
		Re: beta test TT patch By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:20
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:59
		Re: beta test TT patch By: EvilWhiteDragon on Thu, 17 December 2009 14:08
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 17 December 2009 14:29
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Wiener on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:25
		Re: beta test TT patch By: CarrierII on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:27
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 09 December 2009 17:04
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Gen_Blacky on Fri, 11 December 2009 07:56
		Re: beta test TT patch By: YazooGang on Fri, 11 December 2009 17:12
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Goztow on Thu, 10 December 2009 00:34
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Goztow on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:41
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Sean on Sat, 12 December 2009 16:22
		Re: beta test TT patch By: RadioactiveHell on Mon, 14 December 2009 00:25
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Tiesto on Mon, 14 December 2009 08:31
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 16 December 2009 23:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Thu, 17 December 2009 05:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 17 December 2009 07:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: reborn on Thu, 17 December 2009 08:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 17 December 2009 11:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: liquidv2 on Thu, 17 December 2009 16:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 17 December 2009 16:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Thu, 17 December 2009 16:55
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 20:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: luv2pb on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:25
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Tunaman on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 18 December 2009 00:59
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:23
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: raven on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 17:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 17:56
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 18:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Thu, 17 December 2009 18:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 19:24
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 22:35
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 17 December 2009 19:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 20:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 18 December 2009 01:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 03:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:11
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 18 December 2009 02:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:26
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GoldDrag on Fri, 18 December 2009 04:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:02
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:27
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Fri, 18 December 2009 10:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 13:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:38
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:53
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Crimson on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:17
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:44
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 19:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 20:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 18 December 2009 17:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 17:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:56
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 19:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: kadoosh on Fri, 18 December 2009 21:12
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 21:26
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: kadoosh on Fri, 18 December 2009 21:47
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Sat, 19 December 2009 01:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Tunaman on Sat, 19 December 2009 01:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sat, 19 December 2009 05:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Crimson on Sat, 19 December 2009 02:08
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 04:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 13:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 14:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 14:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 14:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:00
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 19 December 2009 13:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sat, 19 December 2009 20:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 20:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 22:11
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:26
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:32
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:36
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 07:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 07:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 08:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 08:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 09:31
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 09:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:23
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:42
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:43
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:33
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 22:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:42
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:44
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:02
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:10
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:32
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Sun, 20 December 2009 12:43
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 13:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: kadoosh on Sun, 20 December 2009 15:55
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 20 December 2009 16:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 16:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 16:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 18:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 20:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Crimson on Mon, 21 December 2009 01:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Mon, 21 December 2009 03:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Mon, 21 December 2009 04:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 21 December 2009 05:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Mon, 21 December 2009 07:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Jamie or NuneGa on Mon, 21 December 2009 12:59
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Mon, 21 December 2009 22:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Mon, 21 December 2009 13:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Mon, 21 December 2009 13:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Mon, 21 December 2009 14:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Mon, 21 December 2009 21:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: liquidv2 on Tue, 22 December 2009 00:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 11:11
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 12:16
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 12:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 12:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 14:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:36
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Ethenal on Tue, 22 December 2009 14:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Crimson on Tue, 22 December 2009 19:17
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 23:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Wed, 23 December 2009 00:12
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:43
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:30
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:18
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Wed, 23 December 2009 04:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 24 December 2009 11:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 12:18
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 12:35
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 12:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 13:23
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Tue, 22 December 2009 21:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: zeratul on Tue, 22 December 2009 21:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Tue, 22 December 2009 21:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 23:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 13:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Thu, 24 December 2009 14:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:10
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: CarrierII on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 25 December 2009 03:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 04:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 05:47
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:10
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 25 December 2009 04:28
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 20:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:27
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:24
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: TD on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: SPIKDUM on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 10:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: SPIKDUM on Fri, 25 December 2009 11:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 11:35
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 11:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:32
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:25
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:33
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:31
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:33
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:38
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:44
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:53
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:55
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:59
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 25 December 2009 15:19

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