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Re: 9/11 Debate II [message #402578 is a reply to message #402554] Sat, 12 September 2009 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
nikki6ixx is currently offline  nikki6ixx
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appshot wrote on Sat, 12 September 2009 12:11

I can say the something back to you nikki, because in the end nobody knows. I mean there is evidence to suggest that there were some discrepencies, to suggest such reasoning. Everyone who is saying that people who say the government is just being ignorant. It might not just be the U.S government but an elite group of individuals nonetheless, but not think about the other side is stupid, when there is evidence to suggest it.


First off, sorry if what I previously said sounded a bit abrasive.

When it comes to discrepencies, I'll give you that. But the thing is that there are discrepencies and holes for everything, be it evolution, interactions at the molecular level, or climate change. But that doesn't necessarily make them untrue.

I don't really like getting into the nitty gritty of the events on September 11th in regards to the crash into the Pentagon or Building 7, because my knowledge of engineering is nil, and people can argue about that stuff until the cows come home.

Instead, my points of contention are based on 'who' did it, and looking at September 11th in the broader scheme of things. The thing is, a rational explanation is pretty boring, and doesn't make for sensational YouTube watching. Sad

I can't for the life of me envision the US Government and its entities being involved and pulling this off effectively. We're all aware of the CIA's blunders like the 'Bay of Pigs' , arming the Mujahadeen, or overthrowing Muhammad Mossadeq in Operation Ajax, to name just a few. Those were all performed in generally third-world countries, with limited government and mechanisms of state control and the CIA and US Government still screwed up. The United States has a sophisticated judicial and governmental/bureaucratic system which presents huge hurdles for an organization even for the likes of the CIA and other entities to pull off something as massive as September 11th.

Given the CIA's track record, I'm not convinced they can pull off an attack of such a magnitude, which would also need support from all the other agencies. It's well known that each agency has a hard time cooperating with the other, often to the point of each side being totally idiotic; if they did, Osama bin Laden would have been killed by an unmanned drone in his compound, which Richard Clarke talks about in his book 'Against all Enemies.'

But let's posit the American government, and/or some elite force did do it. What exactly would they have to gain from it?

a) Oil? They haven't had too much success in that department so far. Saddam was happy enough selling the stuff onto the world market. Besides, if America wanted to control a major oil supply, they would have invaded my country, which supplies about three quarters of America's imported oil. You can argue that America wanted control of a reliable supply in the region for its allies in Europe or Asia, but given that the US' foray has caused prices to escalate, and lead to massive geo-political reprucussions. The US government would have known this, simply based on common knowledge of the region.

b) Influence? Because of America's actions in the Middle East, the balance of power has begun to shift from Saudi Arabia to Iran, because of Iraq's downfall, and hatred towards the West. This is not a consequence that the US would have desired at all, and would have been easily predicted based on geopolitics in the region. Also, if it were a group of 'elites' that wanted more American/corporate control, they really messed up big-time because... (see next point)

c) Money? The US is rolling in it... but it ain't money. Because of the war and economic policies implemented after the attacks, the United States is teetering on the economic brink, one heck of a shitty situation. Right after the attacks, the economy was plunged into a major downturn, and the government responded by lowering interest rates and creating policies that would get things back on track. Unfortunately, those policies are what helped to contribute to the economic situation of today, and now the US is facing record a deficit and debt; no other country has stood to benefit from this, either. Any 'elite' businessperson would know that shaking the confidence of the American consumer, aka, the biggest market in the world is bad news, and would cause a major crisis. American's are broke now, and anyone with money isn't spending. Corporations don't make large sums on the backs of poor people, because poor people and governments can't buy stuff.

d) Power? One assertion is that the US government did 9/11 to make people either fear it, or heavily support it. That only worked for a very short period. Now In reality, a government is more powerful when the people are apathetic, and when nothing is going on that 'concerns' them.

One theory that I happen to loathe the most is the idea that the planes were actually not passenger jets, but were ones from the military. Now, if that were the case, what has happened to the dozens of people who died in those planes? Were they safely landed, and are they now part of a massive witness protection scheme? For that matter, why would the government reroute them, but still smash planes into the towers, killing thousands already? What are a few dozen more people in that statistic?

The coordination needed by the government is unimagineable, and the thing is... people squeal. You'd think, that in a major disaster such as this one, somebody would have come out and said something. Can you imagine how much money that person would make in book deals, movie deals, TV exclusives, and speaking tours? Money talks. I suppose people could be payed off, but unless all the fiscal watchdogs and auditors for the US Government are complicit, it would be a bit of a stretch to say that

Finally, conspiracy theorists are ignoring a big elephant in the room: The Middle East was treated like dirt by Western powers for over a century. Forget about the Crusades, the real hurt came from the the Sykes-Picot Agreement and the UN implemented Mandate System which split tribes and traditional boundaries, and subjecting the people to colonial rule. During WWI, the Allies promised an Arab homeland, only to renege on their promise. Then there's also Israel, the repeated propping up of dictators by Western powers, horrible poverty, and a clash between pan-Islam and pan-Arabism.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume that all the problems in the region would create extremist groups, who would then devise plots to harm the people they view as oppressors. Al-Qaeda is just such a group, and they were responsible for the embassy bombings in Nairobi and Kenya, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, as well as the attempted 'Millennium Bombing' of the LA Airport. They've pulled off sophisticated attacks before, and because of the safe haven available to them in Afghanistan, they were able to organize 9/11. The only government involvement in 9/11 was that the intelligence agencies and the executives in the White House were too stupid and ignorant to act upon the multitude of warning signals.

That's my stab at the whole thing. Rocked Over

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[Updated on: Sat, 12 September 2009 12:57]

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