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Re: Is Obamas Muslimness Bad? [message #390224 is a reply to message #390220] Thu, 11 June 2009 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Dover is currently offline  Dover
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u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

Since when does the Media pay attention to something when things are going well? As I said, only recently has it all come crumbling down, for many years the Taliban WAS destroyed and fractured, and as Nikki said, simply a bunch of tribal warlords getting rich off Opium and claiming affiliation to the Taliban.


Yet five years later, the job still isn't done. Wise and understanding application of military forces? It doesn't seem so.

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

I agree. Our reasons for invading Iraq were misguided and we probably shouldn't be there at all. I'm simply pointing out that we have done good in our time there.


It's almost an inevitablilty that some conceivable good would come of any action. We can thank World War II for a leap ahead in military technology that has seen application in the civilian sector and improved all our lives. Does that mean Hitler was a cool guy for starting it all? Of course not. Let's not muddy the waters by equating some good with our original criteria -- Wise and understanding application of military forces. Iraq does not meet these criteria. Like you said, we shouldn't have been there.

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

We destroyed pretty much all of their military infrastructure and crippled their fighting force. A decade, however, is a long time. Even so, we still didn't see any tanks or major organized resistance when we went into Iraq again, did we?


In terms of politics and history, a decade isn't that long at all. It has been only a little over a decade and Eastern Europe is still associated with communism, despite most former soviet satellite nations being part of the EU.

We didn't see any major organized resistance in Iraq because the second time around we didn't bother to declare war, and instead put a cruise into anything of value before the invasion began, before anyone had any idea what was happening, a luxury not afforded the first time around. Was it effective? Sure. Was it wise and understanding? You yourself said we shouldn't have gone, so I would agree with you and say no, it wasn't.

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

The UN got us into Korea. However, I was referring to today- when surveyed people rate Eisenhower as one of the best Presidents.

Eisenhower was a good President. Have you ever driven on the interstate? Thank Eisenhower. He was also a great advocate of Civil Rights, granting some of the first real victories for the movement through the integration of DC public schools, and two Civil Rights acts.


Put his work in civil rights and highway projects aside. That has nothing to do with applying military forces. Blame to UN all you want for Korea, but it was a direct result of America's shitty "containment" policy, and while the troops in Korea were the UN's by name, they were comprised largely of Americans. The two are inseparable.

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

As I said before, he was convinced it was destined for success. Luckily, the Bay of Pigs invasion didn't involve the US Armed Forces, simply a few CIA advisers that trained the Cubans.


This is just a variation on the Eisenhower example from above. Just because it's a different political organ that the orders are being issued from doesn't change their ultimate source. I can't accept the justification of The Bay of Pigs just because they weren't REAL Americans fighting, "just" Cubans.

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

Well then we have a difference in personal opinion, my friend. The fact that the United States is the first name that comes up in most international affairs is a direct result of our nation being the last remaining superpower. Our role as a world police force comes without a choice.


Of course it comes with a choice. There are international organizations (Namely, the UN) who's authority is global. There is no need for the United States to assume such a role.

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

First of all, he was offered to serve as King of the United States from the beginning, and pimp slapped the ones who made that offer immediately. He established the foundation of the Presidency and set forth a standard for democratic election of a leader that serves as a framework even today. He also resigned from his Presidency after a few years, inventing the four year standard for a term.


I meant in terms of a commander-in-chief--the context of this discussion (Or so I thought).

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

I am not in any way saying that to be a good President, one must have military experience. Merely that it helps. Veterans have a higher sense of national duty and often times greater leadership experience which is invaluable commanding the most powerful nation on Earth.


To say this is to imply that those who are not Veterns lack the leadership abilities to lead America in times when it needs it, but you haven't addressed my first two examples: Both Lincoln and FDR led America through the two wars that were most potentially destructive to the United States, and neither of them had any miltiary experience to speak of.

u6795 wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40

You seem to think Military experience means combat experience. This is far from the case. Military training instills a sense of servitude which is absolutely desirable in a man destined to fill the office of President, the ultimate servant of the people. He is elected by the people, and governs for the people and of the people.


Theoretically. To stay with the example of Bush, I don't see how doing and dealing Cocaine in a position secured by your Dad's powerful connections helps a man understand the servitude involved in being president.

DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19

Remember kids the internet is serious business.

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