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Re: Is Obamas Muslimness Bad? [message #390220 is a reply to message #390027] Thu, 11 June 2009 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
u6795 is currently offline  u6795
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Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

Also, I wouldn't call the war in Afghanistan well-managed. Ever since Iraq started it's been out of the limelight. It's only recently that people are starting to pay attention that we realize how shitty things are going there. You use words like "nearly crushed" and "driven out (except for the resurgence lol)". That's just putting a positive spin on failure.


Since when does the Media pay attention to something when things are going well? As I said, only recently has it all come crumbling down, for many years the Taliban WAS destroyed and fractured, and as Nikki said, simply a bunch of tribal warlords getting rich off Opium and claiming affiliation to the Taliban.

Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

Lastly, while some good may have come out of the invasion of Iraq (The overthrow of an oppressive douchebag), that in itself is not as was not enough reason to invade. North Korea has an oppressive douchebag leader, why don't we play world police and invade them, too? The nation was lied too. Anyone else remember those UN briefings where Colon Powell was giving detailed descriptions of biological weapons loaded on to trucks, complete with diagrams and CGI representaions?


I agree. Our reasons for invading Iraq were misguided and we probably shouldn't be there at all. I'm simply pointing out that we have done good in our time there.

Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

...And yet we ended up invading the same country a decade later. Not what I would call wise use of military forces, if they apparently accomplished nothing.


We destroyed pretty much all of their military infrastructure and crippled their fighting force. A decade, however, is a long time. Even so, we still didn't see any tanks or major organized resistance when we went into Iraq again, did we?


Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

His honorable actions as General and commander of Allied forces in Europe aside, he was a fairly mediocre president. The Korean war was a pathetic clusterfuck. Also, most presidents typically have high approval ratings toward the beginning of wars. It's obvious generals make good generals, but I would argue that they don't nessessarily make good presidents.



The UN got us into Korea. However, I was referring to today- when surveyed people rate Eisenhower as one of the best Presidents.

Eisenhower was a good President. Have you ever driven on the interstate? Thank Eisenhower. He was also a great advocate of Civil Rights, granting some of the first real victories for the movement through the integration of DC public schools, and two Civil Rights acts.


Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

When mentioning Kennedy, I wasn't refering to his involvement in Vietnam (Which, as you mentioned, had been going on for several years). I was specifically referring to The Bay Of Pigs Invasion, which was a terrible failure. Even if it's only tied to him by his authorization, it means he authorized a terrible failure. Something that lies in direct contradiction to your claim that presidents with military experience have a deeper understanding of armed forces and use them wisely.


As I said before, he was convinced it was destined for success. Luckily, the Bay of Pigs invasion didn't involve the US Armed Forces, simply a few CIA advisers that trained the Cubans.

Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

Most would argue that in the process of increasing the standing of the United States, he lowered world opinion, both back then by pissing off all of Latin America, and to this day by establishing the American role of "World Police" which presidents unfortunately seem to uphold to this day. You might call that respect, but I don't.



Well then we have a difference in personal opinion, my friend. The fact that the United States is the first name that comes up in most international affairs is a direct result of our nation being the last remaining superpower. Our role as a world police force comes without a choice.

Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

I don't know what Washington did as president.


First of all, he was offered to serve as King of the United States from the beginning, and pimp slapped the ones who made that offer immediately. He established the foundation of the Presidency and set forth a standard for democratic election of a leader that serves as a framework even today. He also resigned from his Presidency after a few years, inventing the four year standard for a term.

Dover wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:22

What I'm looking for is a clear example of good military leader = good president, and I would maintain that you haven't shown me such an example yet.


I am not in any way saying that to be a good President, one must have military experience. Merely that it helps. Veterans have a higher sense of national duty and often times greater leadership experience which is invaluable commanding the most powerful nation on Earth.

Quote:

I would hardly consider Bush a "miltiary president". A few months safegaurding the airspace of texas from...uhm...someone? That's military experience?


You seem to think Military experience means combat experience. This is far from the case. Military training instills a sense of servitude which is absolutely desirable in a man destined to fill the office of President, the ultimate servant of the people. He is elected by the people, and governs for the people and of the people.

yeah

[Updated on: Thu, 11 June 2009 16:42]

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