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Re: prop 8 california passes [message #358026 is a reply to message #358019]

Tue, 11 November 2008 00:23

CarrierII
Messages: 3804
Registered: February 2006
Location: England

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NukeIt15 wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 04:26

And for some reason now I guess we're supposed to look backwards and say "well, this is how it's always been so it must be the right way." I'm sorry, what? For tens of thousands of years humanity governed itself through a combination of strong-arm tactics, showmanship, and heredity, but I think most of us realize that there are newer ways that just work better in the modern world. In older times, when our understanding of brain and body chemistry was less complete (even nonexistent), one could perhaps be forgiven for claiming that homosexuality was an aberration, an abomination, and downright strange- but with the knowledge we have today, we ought to fucking know better.

We're asking a group to prove that they deserve protection in order to receive it. Since when was that the way it's supposed to work in this country? No, it is meant to be the other way around- those who wish to deny it to them must instead provide a compelling reason why it should be denied. Any reason beginning with the words "throughout history" or "it isn't natural" is not compelling; it fails to provide any evidence whatsoever that allowing a homosexual couple to get married would do harm to other citizens of this country, or of the state in which they reside. The case against has yet to be made; the case for is provided by the overwhelming number of citizens, who have done no harm to anyone, asking for what ought to have already been theirs by simply being citizens in the first place, since the rights they seek are guaranteed to anyone else.

And for everyone who says they wouldn't oppose gay rights if only the gays would shut up about it, wake up and smell the fucking coffee! Can you think of a single cause in recorded history that ever succeeded because its champions decided to sit quietly and not bother anybody? This is the proven process: Activism creates awareness, awareness generates interest, interest generates support, support generates success. If no toes are stepped on, the media doesn't pay attention. Fortunately, all it seems to take for gays to get the required coverage is to be obvious in public, and the die-hard reactionaries do the rest of the work for them. If they drop out of the spotlight, nobody agitates for change and the status quo is maintained, which is most decidedly not what they're after. If you'd rather they shut up and stop bothering you, fine, but do try to realize the full extent of what you're asking for (unless you do already and are just trying to mask the sentiment).

Keep in mind that nobody (sane) is asking for marriages between twelve year olds and adults here; everything on the table (including polygamy, which by the way means multiple spouses of either gender) covers relationships between consenting adults. To disallow any such relationship through the passage and enforcement of a law is to say that the government knows better than the people it governs what is best for them. What the fuck, people? Does anybody even realize how silly that sounds? What the churches do is up to the churches, but the government is treading on some pretty shaky ground. Whether homosexuality is rooted in psychology or biology, it doesn't matter one bit- or shouldn't, anyway.

Thread over. Nice speech.

Renguard is a wonderful initiative

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		prop 8 california passes By: Rocko on Wed, 05 November 2008 23:04
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: u6795 on Thu, 06 November 2008 04:34
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Herr Surth on Thu, 06 November 2008 05:49
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Thu, 06 November 2008 06:35
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Ma1kel on Thu, 06 November 2008 07:29
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 06 November 2008 08:35
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 06 November 2008 09:20
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Canadacdn on Thu, 06 November 2008 10:13
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 06 November 2008 14:00
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Thu, 06 November 2008 15:10
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Thu, 06 November 2008 10:41
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: u6795 on Thu, 06 November 2008 12:41
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: CarrierII on Thu, 06 November 2008 13:28
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: u6795 on Thu, 06 November 2008 15:16
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Ma1kel on Fri, 07 November 2008 06:57
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: u6795 on Fri, 07 November 2008 13:13
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Fri, 07 November 2008 13:21
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 06 November 2008 13:33
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 06 November 2008 14:39
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Ryu on Thu, 06 November 2008 18:04
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: slosha on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:38
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 06 November 2008 22:27
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: DarkKnight on Fri, 07 November 2008 06:15
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: reborn on Fri, 07 November 2008 06:26
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: C C_guy on Fri, 07 November 2008 06:50
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 07 November 2008 13:41
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Fri, 07 November 2008 13:55
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: u6795 on Fri, 07 November 2008 14:13
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Genesis2001 on Fri, 07 November 2008 13:45
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: GoArmy44 on Fri, 07 November 2008 15:12
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 07 November 2008 16:01
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 07 November 2008 16:12
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Starbuzzz on Fri, 07 November 2008 22:25
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: nikki6ixx on Sat, 08 November 2008 01:40
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 08 November 2008 18:39
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: z310 on Sat, 08 November 2008 02:12
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Sat, 08 November 2008 08:34
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: nikki6ixx on Sat, 08 November 2008 13:10
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 08 November 2008 20:38
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 09 November 2008 14:15
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: z310 on Sun, 09 November 2008 23:15
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: nikki6ixx on Mon, 10 November 2008 16:01
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: z310 on Tue, 11 November 2008 05:51
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 11 November 2008 20:09
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: nikki6ixx on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:22
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Spoony on Wed, 12 November 2008 05:22
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 09 November 2008 18:30
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: GoArmy44 on Mon, 10 November 2008 20:05
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:36
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 10 November 2008 21:26
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: CarrierII on Tue, 11 November 2008 00:23
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:47
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Herr Surth on Wed, 12 November 2008 03:30
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Jerad2142 on Wed, 12 November 2008 09:26
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Wed, 12 November 2008 10:04
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Herr Surth on Wed, 12 November 2008 05:29
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Spoony on Wed, 12 November 2008 05:46
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Herr Surth on Wed, 12 November 2008 10:11
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Wed, 12 November 2008 06:26
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: NukeIt15 on Wed, 12 November 2008 07:59
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Canadacdn on Sat, 15 November 2008 18:34
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Ma1kel on Tue, 18 November 2008 12:06
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 November 2008 14:24
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Ma1kel on Wed, 19 November 2008 05:37
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Berkut on Thu, 20 November 2008 10:14
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: renalpha on Thu, 20 November 2008 12:05
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Ma1kel on Thu, 20 November 2008 13:56
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 21 November 2008 08:38
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Berkut on Tue, 25 November 2008 20:49
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: renalpha on Fri, 21 November 2008 11:29
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: u6795 on Fri, 21 November 2008 15:46
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 25 November 2008 06:55
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: cheesesoda on Tue, 25 November 2008 08:57
		Re: prop 8 california passes By: CarrierII on Fri, 21 November 2008 12:29

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