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Re: Freedom of Religion? [message #354277 is a reply to message #354267]

Mon, 13 October 2008 09:36

R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York

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Spoony wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 07:35

You are correct about only one thing in this paragraph... namely the first sentence.

Religion is not just an 'opinion'. If it was, the world would be an infinitely better place. It also tends to be a set of actions that are instructed (or forbidden), and the problem comes when they're imposed on others (and this absolutely does include children).

Stay with me here. If your religion makes you believe God made the world 6000 years ago, that's fine with me (just don't teach it in science class to innocent, unformed minds). If your religion instructs you to kill homosexuals... this is clearly a different scenario, but the difference between the two is NOT RELIGION. The justification for both the two is religious. The only difference is the difference between thinking something for yourself while doing no harm to anyone, and actively taking away the rights of others. If you permit the one under the pretext of religion, you surely have to permit the other. That's why "freedom of religion" is nonsense; you'd have to allow all sorts of atrocities. Which, of course, we do.

I'm still not understanding..

Why do you think that? It makes no sense?

You're basically saying something like "freedom to choose a car" should be "freedom to choose a vehicle." Just because there are different types of vehicles doesn't mean it still isn't a car. That just doesn't make sense.

Different religion is a different religion, a different belief.

You can't say freedom of belief because belief is an opinion that is granted for anything you care to believe in. A religion is a specific kind of belief. Just like saying you can't say freedom to choose a vehicle over a car because there are other such vehicles out there other than cars, be it planes, boats, trains, ect.

Someone believing in 1 religion and someone believing in another are two different religions, or two different beliefs. Just because they are both a specific type of belief, doesn't mean they are the same.

Perhaps it would be easier to say "You have the freedom to believe in any religion you want." However, I do see your point in that being contradictory if your religion takes you to remove rights of other people. However that is not a choice between "belief" and "religion." You can believe in a religion, but you don't have to carry it out. Or maybe if you think about it this way, it will make more sense: In the United States, you have the freedom to kill someone if you wanted to. Is it illegal? Yes. Will you get arrested and be punished for it? Yes, but that still doesn't deny the fact that you are still able to physically do it.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 October 2008 09:40]

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[Message index]

		Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:25
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:32
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:36
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Ryu on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:41
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:47
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:39
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Sun, 12 October 2008 09:23
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:24
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 09:48
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Mon, 13 October 2008 04:27
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 13 October 2008 06:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Mon, 13 October 2008 09:54
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 13 October 2008 10:13
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Tue, 14 October 2008 13:31
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 14 October 2008 13:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Tue, 14 October 2008 14:06
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 14 October 2008 15:16
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 14 October 2008 21:01
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 12 October 2008 10:03
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 10:07
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 11:54
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 12:12
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: jnz on Sun, 12 October 2008 12:55
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 13:34
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:30
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:37
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:41
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:46
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: futura83 on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:58
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 12 October 2008 15:06
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Canadacdn on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:50
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 12 October 2008 22:37
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Mon, 13 October 2008 04:35
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 13 October 2008 09:36
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Ryu on Mon, 13 October 2008 04:50
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 13 October 2008 10:30
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Rocko on Mon, 13 October 2008 19:35
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 13 October 2008 21:51
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 14 October 2008 15:05
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 14 October 2008 21:26
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 14 October 2008 23:08
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 15 October 2008 09:12
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Wed, 15 October 2008 10:49
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Wed, 15 October 2008 08:10
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 15 October 2008 08:55
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 15 October 2008 17:12
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Thu, 16 October 2008 05:19
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 16 October 2008 12:23
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Tue, 11 November 2008 10:47
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Rocko on Wed, 15 October 2008 19:24
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Muad Dib15 on Wed, 15 October 2008 20:30
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Quackpunk on Sat, 18 October 2008 17:20
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Ryan3k on Sat, 18 October 2008 18:25
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Quackpunk on Tue, 21 October 2008 22:26
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Hitman on Thu, 11 December 2008 08:45
		Re: Freedom of Religion? By: Spoony on Thu, 11 December 2008 09:02

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