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Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348473 is a reply to message #348463]

Thu, 28 August 2008 00:20

Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ

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kong009 wrote on Wed, 27 August 2008 19:19

kong009: "I don't like the pointsfix because it drops player count in servers."

My data suggest that the server settings are not at fault for the initial player count drop. The only change we made (until recently) was to add the pointsfix. Turn that around all you want to and say this doesn't explain the increase in players recently, but the fact remains, we suffered a player loss due to the pointsfix.

Jelly has been running the points fix on the AOW1 server for over a year, as have I. There are plenty of other factors that are much more likely to have caused the drop in players, such as RenGuard being less effective, new games coming out, compilations like TFD not coming out, and people of Renegade age being on summer break. There should be a boost as kids get back in school and the weather gets colder, kids getting $5 Renegade in their stockings, and hopefully the TT patch.

Quote:

Again, I want to stress that my issue with the pointsfix is I very much worry about MY servers, the ones I moderate, losing players due to a points system we had NOTHING to do with but given NO CHOICE whether to use it or not. The fact that n00bstories has not lost its players gives me some hope, but I am not convinced.

So you are going to give servers the chance to run without the fix, but that isn't free, is it? Essentially now the choice I have to give to my regulars is "Would you rather have more credits and sacrifice being ranked on a global ladder or would you suffer through limited credits and be globally ranked?"

The ladder is only a price to pay if you want it to be. I believe the players have wanted a working ladder ever since Renegade came out and it's not a stretch to agree that the current formula is a long way from being a good indicator of skill. But, we simply can't allow knowingly-unbalanced servers to contribute their data when you're trying to calculate skill. It doesn't make any sense to do so.

Quote:

When I step back and look at that question and the circumstances surrounding it, I realize that only reason for this is this mandatory pointsfix I had no hand in creating or agree with.

Absolute proof has been provided as to why this fix was both intended by Westwood and balances the game. Over a year of gameplay testing has shown that the only players who are negatively affected by the fix are the ones who use bullshit tactics, and the players who are positively affected are the ones who play seriously and contribute to their teams.

Quote:

What I'm trying to understand is where you come off thinking that it's okay for you to throw this controversial pointsfix on a game that has been around for many years, make it mandatory, and then wonder where all the opposition is coming from. You're not surprised that people are resisting this change... are you?

Actually I was and am stunned. I have had so much more fun in the game since I added the fix to my servers that I can not fathom why anyone is resisting it at all.

Quote:

Furthermore, please don't tell me, or anybody else for that matter, that you are interested in fixing everything you can possibly fix and then host a poll at the top of this section of the forums asking if you should fix the outside pt-bug or not (or make it mandatory, to be more specific). Clearly that bug has the potential to change the outcome of games as well, but there is some inconsistency there with how you are approaching the pointsfix vs. outside pt-bug, wouldn't you agree?

I didn't create the poll. I doubt we ever intended to let the fake majority here decide the issue anyway. I believe it was more a forum for feedback so that we could figure out if there was any good reason not to fix it. I use outside PTs myself but I'm willing to work with my teammates to create new tactics if we lose that option that never should have been there in the first place.

I'm the bawss.

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[Message index]

		Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Fri, 15 August 2008 14:52
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Fri, 15 August 2008 15:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Fri, 15 August 2008 17:19
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Fri, 15 August 2008 15:19
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Fri, 15 August 2008 15:30
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Fri, 15 August 2008 15:49
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Fri, 15 August 2008 16:02
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Fri, 15 August 2008 16:27
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Fri, 15 August 2008 16:46
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Jellybe4n on Sat, 16 August 2008 05:26
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: _SSnipe_ on Fri, 15 August 2008 16:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Fri, 15 August 2008 16:50
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: trooprm02 on Fri, 15 August 2008 17:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Fri, 15 August 2008 19:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: gkl21 on Fri, 15 August 2008 19:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Fri, 15 August 2008 20:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Fri, 15 August 2008 22:23
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sat, 16 August 2008 01:00
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Jellybe4n on Sat, 16 August 2008 05:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Sat, 16 August 2008 06:17
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: gkl21 on Sat, 16 August 2008 08:45
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sat, 16 August 2008 11:53
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Sat, 16 August 2008 12:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Sat, 16 August 2008 12:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Sat, 16 August 2008 14:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: cmatt42 on Sat, 16 August 2008 14:14
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sat, 16 August 2008 14:17
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Sat, 16 August 2008 23:26
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sun, 17 August 2008 00:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: CarrierII on Sun, 17 August 2008 01:52
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 17 August 2008 04:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: =HT=T-Bird on Sun, 17 August 2008 06:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Sun, 17 August 2008 06:58
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sun, 17 August 2008 14:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: trooprm02 on Sun, 17 August 2008 11:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 17 August 2008 11:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 17 August 2008 11:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: trooprm02 on Sun, 17 August 2008 13:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 17 August 2008 11:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 17 August 2008 11:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Sun, 17 August 2008 12:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 17 August 2008 13:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 17 August 2008 14:10
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: TD on Sun, 17 August 2008 14:37
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Sun, 17 August 2008 16:11
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: gkl21 on Sun, 17 August 2008 16:30
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Sun, 17 August 2008 20:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Sun, 17 August 2008 21:06
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Sun, 17 August 2008 22:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: u6795 on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:19
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:36
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Nightma12 on Sun, 17 August 2008 16:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sun, 17 August 2008 17:36
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: gkl21 on Sun, 17 August 2008 17:46
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sun, 17 August 2008 17:55
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 17 August 2008 20:27
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:47
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 18 August 2008 06:36
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Sun, 17 August 2008 23:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Mon, 18 August 2008 08:00
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Mon, 18 August 2008 15:14
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: gkl21 on Mon, 18 August 2008 15:51
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Mon, 18 August 2008 20:50
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: trooprm02 on Mon, 18 August 2008 09:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 18 August 2008 09:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Mon, 18 August 2008 09:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 18 August 2008 10:07
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Mon, 18 August 2008 13:31
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Mon, 18 August 2008 14:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Tue, 19 August 2008 14:49
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Ghostshaw on Mon, 18 August 2008 10:23
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Mon, 18 August 2008 11:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: =HT=T-Bird on Mon, 18 August 2008 13:34
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 18 August 2008 14:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 19 August 2008 01:04
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Tue, 19 August 2008 02:17
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 19 August 2008 02:36
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: mac on Tue, 19 August 2008 03:04
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Tue, 19 August 2008 14:51
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Tue, 19 August 2008 15:05
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Jamie or NuneGa on Tue, 19 August 2008 15:18
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Jellybe4n on Wed, 20 August 2008 10:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: blly on Wed, 20 August 2008 21:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 20 August 2008 21:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Thu, 21 August 2008 02:52
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: blly on Thu, 21 August 2008 09:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Thu, 21 August 2008 19:05
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: cmatt42 on Thu, 21 August 2008 19:37
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: _SSnipe_ on Thu, 21 August 2008 10:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: w0dka on Thu, 21 August 2008 13:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Thu, 21 August 2008 19:42
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Nightma12 on Thu, 21 August 2008 20:00
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Thu, 21 August 2008 23:29
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Thu, 21 August 2008 23:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: cmatt42 on Fri, 22 August 2008 10:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Fri, 22 August 2008 15:30
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Fri, 22 August 2008 15:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Fri, 22 August 2008 23:02
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 23 August 2008 03:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Sat, 23 August 2008 19:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: cmatt42 on Fri, 22 August 2008 16:10
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Fri, 22 August 2008 16:18
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Fri, 22 August 2008 23:06
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Fri, 22 August 2008 00:46
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: mac on Fri, 22 August 2008 01:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 22 August 2008 08:05
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: trooprm02 on Fri, 22 August 2008 08:30
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: blly on Fri, 22 August 2008 09:14
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Fri, 22 August 2008 16:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Fri, 22 August 2008 16:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Fri, 22 August 2008 16:31
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: gkl21 on Fri, 22 August 2008 17:05
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Fri, 22 August 2008 18:06
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Fri, 22 August 2008 23:03
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sat, 23 August 2008 00:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: cmatt42 on Sat, 23 August 2008 09:20
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Sat, 23 August 2008 19:45
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Sat, 23 August 2008 20:30
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sun, 24 August 2008 23:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sun, 24 August 2008 11:43
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Mon, 25 August 2008 15:20
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Mon, 25 August 2008 15:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Craziac on Mon, 25 August 2008 16:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Mon, 25 August 2008 23:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Tue, 26 August 2008 21:34
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Wed, 27 August 2008 01:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Tue, 26 August 2008 22:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Wed, 27 August 2008 19:19
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Thu, 28 August 2008 00:20
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Thu, 28 August 2008 04:07
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 27 August 2008 20:57
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Thu, 28 August 2008 05:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Thu, 28 August 2008 05:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Thu, 28 August 2008 07:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Thu, 28 August 2008 13:05
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Thu, 28 August 2008 13:06
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Thu, 28 August 2008 13:35
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Thu, 28 August 2008 17:50
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Thu, 28 August 2008 23:04
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Fri, 29 August 2008 02:14
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Fri, 29 August 2008 15:34
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Sat, 30 August 2008 05:04
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Thu, 28 August 2008 09:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: gkl21 on Thu, 28 August 2008 12:35
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Thu, 28 August 2008 13:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 28 August 2008 13:23
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Roni on Thu, 28 August 2008 13:23
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Thu, 28 August 2008 23:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Thu, 28 August 2008 22:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Fri, 29 August 2008 04:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Fri, 29 August 2008 22:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 09:36
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Ghostshaw on Sat, 30 August 2008 02:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Sat, 30 August 2008 08:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 09:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Sat, 30 August 2008 10:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 12:30
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Sat, 30 August 2008 12:50
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 12:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Sat, 30 August 2008 12:58
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Sat, 30 August 2008 13:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 13:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: msgtpain on Sat, 30 August 2008 13:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Sat, 30 August 2008 13:37
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Sat, 30 August 2008 13:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 14:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Sat, 30 August 2008 11:04
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Sat, 30 August 2008 11:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Sat, 30 August 2008 12:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 12:54
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Sat, 30 August 2008 14:45
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sat, 30 August 2008 15:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sat, 30 August 2008 23:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sun, 31 August 2008 14:50
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Sun, 31 August 2008 00:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: TruYuri on Sun, 31 August 2008 16:02
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: kong009 on Mon, 01 September 2008 19:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Tue, 02 September 2008 07:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Mon, 01 September 2008 10:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Mon, 01 September 2008 11:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Mon, 01 September 2008 06:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 01 September 2008 09:19
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Mon, 01 September 2008 09:51
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Mon, 01 September 2008 15:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: T0RN on Wed, 03 September 2008 03:45
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: w0dka on Wed, 03 September 2008 06:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Mon, 01 September 2008 23:29
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: w0dka on Wed, 03 September 2008 01:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 03 September 2008 09:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Wed, 03 September 2008 23:57
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Tue, 02 September 2008 03:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 02 September 2008 04:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 02 September 2008 05:17
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 02 September 2008 05:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 02 September 2008 05:25
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 02 September 2008 05:35
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 02 September 2008 05:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Tue, 02 September 2008 21:05
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 02 September 2008 23:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: CarrierII on Tue, 02 September 2008 07:36
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Wed, 03 September 2008 03:45
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 September 2008 06:06
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Wed, 03 September 2008 07:07
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Thu, 04 September 2008 00:26
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Thu, 04 September 2008 00:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Thu, 04 September 2008 03:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Thu, 04 September 2008 04:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Thu, 04 September 2008 00:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Thu, 04 September 2008 02:58
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Thu, 04 September 2008 09:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Thu, 04 September 2008 12:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Thu, 04 September 2008 12:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Thu, 04 September 2008 14:00
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Thu, 04 September 2008 10:36
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Thu, 04 September 2008 14:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Thu, 04 September 2008 14:23
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 04 September 2008 14:29
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Thu, 04 September 2008 14:57
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 04 September 2008 15:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Thu, 04 September 2008 20:13
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 04 September 2008 20:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Fri, 05 September 2008 03:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Fri, 05 September 2008 05:04
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 September 2008 09:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:45
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Fri, 05 September 2008 06:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Fri, 05 September 2008 09:11
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 September 2008 10:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Sun, 07 September 2008 19:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 September 2008 04:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Mon, 08 September 2008 09:50
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 September 2008 12:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Tue, 09 September 2008 14:02
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 September 2008 21:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Wed, 10 September 2008 00:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 September 2008 00:54
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:13
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 07 September 2008 03:29
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 07 September 2008 03:25
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 07 September 2008 10:13
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 07 September 2008 22:10
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 07 September 2008 22:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 07 September 2008 22:42
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Mon, 08 September 2008 01:53
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 07 September 2008 23:00
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Chuck Norris on Mon, 08 September 2008 02:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 08 September 2008 05:25
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 September 2008 07:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 08 September 2008 09:05
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Herr Surth on Mon, 08 September 2008 09:09
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 08 September 2008 09:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 08 September 2008 10:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 08 September 2008 10:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 08 September 2008 10:49
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Mon, 08 September 2008 12:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: u6795 on Mon, 08 September 2008 12:26
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 08 September 2008 12:27
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: TD on Mon, 08 September 2008 15:35
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: JohnDoe on Mon, 08 September 2008 16:30
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 08 September 2008 17:11
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: JohnDoe on Mon, 08 September 2008 17:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Rocko on Mon, 08 September 2008 22:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Mon, 08 September 2008 23:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 September 2008 00:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Tue, 09 September 2008 09:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 09 September 2008 06:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 09 September 2008 09:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Tue, 09 September 2008 09:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 09 September 2008 10:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Tue, 09 September 2008 10:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 09 September 2008 10:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Tue, 09 September 2008 10:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 09 September 2008 11:34
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 09 September 2008 15:19
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Tue, 09 September 2008 15:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 09 September 2008 15:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Tue, 09 September 2008 19:19
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Tue, 09 September 2008 15:35
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: XCorupt69 on Thu, 11 September 2008 09:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Thu, 11 September 2008 10:11
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Thu, 11 September 2008 12:17
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Tue, 09 September 2008 15:43
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Tue, 09 September 2008 15:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 09 September 2008 20:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 10 September 2008 18:51
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 10 September 2008 19:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Wed, 10 September 2008 03:02
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Wed, 10 September 2008 03:42
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: XCorupt69 on Wed, 10 September 2008 17:10
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 10 September 2008 17:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: s0meSkunk on Wed, 10 September 2008 04:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 11 September 2008 09:18
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: XCorupt69 on Thu, 11 September 2008 09:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 11 September 2008 14:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Thu, 11 September 2008 13:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Homey on Thu, 11 September 2008 14:34
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Thu, 11 September 2008 17:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: XCorupt69 on Fri, 12 September 2008 17:47
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Fri, 12 September 2008 17:53
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 12 September 2008 18:35
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Fri, 12 September 2008 19:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Fri, 12 September 2008 22:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 13 September 2008 00:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Sat, 13 September 2008 01:10
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Sat, 13 September 2008 01:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Sun, 14 September 2008 00:15
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: CarrierII on Sun, 14 September 2008 00:51
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: CarrierII on Sun, 14 September 2008 12:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Sun, 14 September 2008 21:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 15 September 2008 06:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: CarrierII on Mon, 15 September 2008 09:03
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Tue, 16 September 2008 15:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 16 September 2008 18:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Tue, 16 September 2008 18:58
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 16 September 2008 19:11
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: XCorupt69 on Wed, 17 September 2008 15:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Wed, 17 September 2008 16:02
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 17 September 2008 16:58
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 17 September 2008 21:53
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: havoc9826 on Wed, 17 September 2008 22:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: saberhawk on Wed, 17 September 2008 23:06
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 18 September 2008 12:39
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Thu, 18 September 2008 06:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Thu, 18 September 2008 14:55
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 18 September 2008 16:56
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Fri, 19 September 2008 01:27
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 19 September 2008 06:38
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Speedy059 on Sat, 27 September 2008 11:18
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 27 September 2008 12:03
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Ethenal on Sat, 27 September 2008 12:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Sat, 27 September 2008 15:04
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: trunkskgb on Sat, 27 September 2008 16:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 27 September 2008 16:28
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 28 September 2008 08:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Sun, 28 September 2008 05:07
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: nope.avi on Sun, 28 September 2008 06:47
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Sun, 28 September 2008 07:12
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Wed, 01 October 2008 14:01
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 01 October 2008 16:52
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: nope.avi on Sun, 28 September 2008 07:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: sadukar09 on Sun, 28 September 2008 08:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: nope.avi on Sun, 28 September 2008 18:27
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 28 September 2008 19:43
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: nope.avi on Mon, 29 September 2008 09:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: DutchNeon on Sun, 28 September 2008 08:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 28 September 2008 10:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Sun, 28 September 2008 23:27
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 29 September 2008 01:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Mon, 29 September 2008 10:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: cmatt42 on Tue, 30 September 2008 17:31
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: InternetThug on Tue, 30 September 2008 17:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Goztow on Tue, 30 September 2008 23:58
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 30 September 2008 19:17
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: InternetThug on Tue, 30 September 2008 19:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 30 September 2008 20:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Thu, 02 October 2008 05:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Thu, 02 October 2008 06:00
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 02 October 2008 13:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Thu, 02 October 2008 15:16
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: EvilWhiteDragon on Thu, 02 October 2008 15:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Thu, 02 October 2008 15:24
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Fri, 03 October 2008 00:32
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 03 October 2008 05:35
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Fri, 03 October 2008 06:21
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Fri, 03 October 2008 06:59
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Fri, 03 October 2008 07:52
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 03 October 2008 11:22
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Fri, 03 October 2008 11:25
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 03 October 2008 11:23
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 03 October 2008 11:25
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 05 October 2008 14:08
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Sun, 05 October 2008 15:48
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 05 October 2008 16:40
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: jnz on Mon, 06 October 2008 00:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: StealthEye on Mon, 06 October 2008 02:41
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: nopol10 on Mon, 06 October 2008 04:57
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Spoony on Mon, 06 October 2008 08:33
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: Crimson on Mon, 06 October 2008 20:44
		Re: Fixing... Points? By: liquidv2 on Tue, 07 October 2008 19:01

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