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Re: in regard to the points fix [message #338421 is a reply to message #338417]

Tue, 01 July 2008 17:45

Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006

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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator

I'll copypaste the reply on jelly.

i0ncl0ud9 wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:26

"Points Fix - fixes an error in the way points are calculated when attacking vehicles with green health. Against all other targets, points are directly proportionate to damage, but not green-health vehicles due to a coding mistake. This is why, for example, snipers could get illogically high points for attacking heavy vehicles they did very little damage to."

a coding mistake?

yes.

i0ncl0ud9 wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:26

Was there not any testing done on this game before it came out? Yes, there was, just like there is with any other game

Do you think while the testing going on everyone testing (or the majority, because there are some pretty unobservant people), noticed what was going on regarding the point fix? Yes

Do you think westwood if they had intended it to be so, would have fixed this issue prior to releasing the game to the public? Of course.

every time someone brings this up, I point out the terrible flaw, which is this:

- by your logic, backwalking the ob is intended.
- by your logic, base to base - even the most unfair example, i.e. a MRLS behind the barracks on Islands - is intended.
- by your logic, bluescreening is intended.

i0ncl0ud9 wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:26

Spoony and everyone else supporting it can say whatever they want but the point fix does more bad than good.

I hear this a lot, and I always make a point of asking the person to elaborate. More often than not I get either an embarrassed silence or an insult in response. Please feel free to do better than that; Why does it do more bad than good? I can make a long, long list of the good it does. I've still yet to hear a single convincing "bad" thing it does.

i0ncl0ud9 wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:26

I don't think even Spoony can deny that the majority of people don't like the pointsfix, which is why he goes to his argument of Westwoods' intentions.

I'm afraid the flaw here is the argument of Westwood's intentions was one of the several core arguments for the pointsfix before any debate on the subject even started.

i0ncl0ud9 wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:26

Leave the game alone how it was obviously meant to be (the way it was released)

"how it was obviously meant to be" = pointsfix. NOT the pointsbug. you only need to play a while on a pointsfix server with an open mind to see that. Westwood weren't stupid, they wouldn't have intentionally put in a balance disaster whereby shooting something you don't damage awards your team massive points, which promotes defensive gameplay.

i0ncl0ud9 wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:26

and even if the small chance appears that westwood did intend for the points fix to be put in, Spoony should try something that sometimes can be hard for him to do. Listen. Westwood has nothing to do with this game anymore other that they made it, so why not listen to the people that really matter. The ones that play it.

this is technically known as "moving the goalposts". first your argument is "westwood DIDN'T intend the pointsfix, end of story, and we need to take heed of that fact" - which is, of course, absolutely false. then it becomes "but if I'm wrong, it doesn't matter that I'm wrong because when I said we need to take heed of that fact, I didn't really mean it, it's not westwood we need to listen to after all"

i0ncl0ud9 wrote

I'm absolutely sure that Jelly, the most popular community in Renegade, doesn't support it.

not at all, plenty of people either like the idea or don't mind it. It's simply the fact that the people who don't like it are usually very vocal, often going to quite extraordinary lengths. Where the rest of the debate is civilised discussion, you can always rely on a small minority to flame the living shit out of anyone who disagrees with them, lie to everyone to make their 'opponents' look bad, etc. You should see the thread in the moderator section about kong... it's pure gold.

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[Message index]

		in regard to the points fix By: i0ncl0ud9 on Tue, 01 July 2008 17:29
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Tue, 01 July 2008 17:45
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Tue, 01 July 2008 17:50
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: nikki6ixx on Tue, 01 July 2008 17:51
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:09
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Tue, 01 July 2008 19:11
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: i0ncl0ud9 on Tue, 01 July 2008 18:15
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Tue, 01 July 2008 18:38
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: i0ncl0ud9 on Tue, 01 July 2008 20:43
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Tue, 01 July 2008 23:48
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: bmruze on Tue, 08 July 2008 02:34
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Tue, 08 July 2008 03:00
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Chuck Norris on Tue, 08 July 2008 08:43
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Tue, 08 July 2008 13:30
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jamie or NuneGa on Wed, 02 July 2008 02:19
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: TruYuri on Wed, 02 July 2008 03:25
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Wed, 02 July 2008 04:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: TruYuri on Wed, 02 July 2008 04:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 02 July 2008 04:37
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: =HT=T-Bird on Wed, 02 July 2008 08:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: nope.avi on Wed, 02 July 2008 08:39
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 02 July 2008 08:47
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Wed, 02 July 2008 08:50
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Creed3020 on Mon, 07 July 2008 15:46
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Mon, 07 July 2008 16:02
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: a000clown on Tue, 08 July 2008 05:04
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: nope.avi on Wed, 02 July 2008 09:35
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 02 July 2008 09:57
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Wed, 02 July 2008 11:35
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: =HT=T-Bird on Wed, 02 July 2008 10:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Wed, 02 July 2008 10:42
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Wed, 02 July 2008 11:37
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Thu, 03 July 2008 03:10
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: sadukar09 on Thu, 03 July 2008 04:23
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: kannies on Thu, 03 July 2008 06:02
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Thu, 03 July 2008 06:16
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Fri, 04 July 2008 22:09
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: CarrierII on Thu, 03 July 2008 09:22
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sat, 05 July 2008 01:08
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Craziac on Sat, 05 July 2008 09:37
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Sat, 05 July 2008 13:03
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sat, 05 July 2008 13:26
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Sat, 05 July 2008 14:03
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Sat, 05 July 2008 16:17
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 06 July 2008 03:15
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 06 July 2008 06:56
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Sun, 06 July 2008 14:11
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Ghostshaw on Sun, 06 July 2008 14:24
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Sun, 06 July 2008 15:08
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Sun, 06 July 2008 15:18
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: TruYuri on Sun, 06 July 2008 16:07
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Sun, 06 July 2008 18:43
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Mon, 07 July 2008 02:32
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: jonwil on Sun, 06 July 2008 19:26
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Sun, 06 July 2008 20:49
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Wiener on Sun, 06 July 2008 23:51
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jamie or NuneGa on Mon, 07 July 2008 08:46
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Mon, 07 July 2008 12:55
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Mon, 07 July 2008 08:57
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Mon, 07 July 2008 10:06
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: GrimmNL on Mon, 07 July 2008 13:55
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: jnz on Mon, 07 July 2008 14:15
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Mon, 07 July 2008 14:34
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Ghostshaw on Mon, 07 July 2008 14:47
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Mon, 07 July 2008 15:02
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Tue, 08 July 2008 01:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: CarrierII on Mon, 07 July 2008 15:54
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 08 July 2008 07:19
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Tue, 08 July 2008 07:29
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Tue, 08 July 2008 10:56
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Tue, 08 July 2008 14:22
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: saberhawk on Tue, 08 July 2008 14:23
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 09 July 2008 02:13
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Chuck Norris on Wed, 09 July 2008 01:19
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: saberhawk on Wed, 09 July 2008 01:50
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Thu, 10 July 2008 04:11
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Chuck Norris on Thu, 10 July 2008 18:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Thu, 10 July 2008 18:37
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Thu, 10 July 2008 19:18
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 11 July 2008 08:03
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Sat, 12 July 2008 20:05
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Sat, 12 July 2008 21:41
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Sat, 12 July 2008 22:09
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 13 July 2008 02:01
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Ghostshaw on Sun, 13 July 2008 02:05
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 13 July 2008 02:24
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Sun, 13 July 2008 09:09
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Sun, 13 July 2008 10:34
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: jonwil on Sun, 13 July 2008 02:36
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 13 July 2008 02:56
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 13 July 2008 03:28
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Sun, 13 July 2008 05:34
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Sun, 13 July 2008 07:13
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Sun, 13 July 2008 09:43
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: T0RN on Sun, 13 July 2008 10:25
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 13 July 2008 10:39
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 13 July 2008 11:09
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Sun, 13 July 2008 11:17
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Sun, 13 July 2008 12:26
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 13 July 2008 12:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: blly on Tue, 15 July 2008 19:24
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Wed, 16 July 2008 04:37
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Wed, 16 July 2008 17:53
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Wed, 16 July 2008 18:43
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Thu, 17 July 2008 01:21
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Thu, 17 July 2008 04:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Thu, 17 July 2008 13:53
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: =HT=T-Bird on Thu, 17 July 2008 14:17
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 17 July 2008 17:38
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: havoc9826 on Thu, 17 July 2008 18:35
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: TruYuri on Fri, 18 July 2008 16:43
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Chuck Norris on Sat, 19 July 2008 06:33
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: a000clown on Fri, 18 July 2008 17:17
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sat, 19 July 2008 02:58
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Sat, 19 July 2008 05:05
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Crimson on Sat, 19 July 2008 05:55
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Sat, 19 July 2008 06:13
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sat, 19 July 2008 06:32
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Crimson on Sat, 19 July 2008 06:43
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Ryu on Sat, 19 July 2008 06:52
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sat, 19 July 2008 07:00
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Starbuzzz on Sat, 19 July 2008 07:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sat, 19 July 2008 07:42
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: gkl21 on Sat, 19 July 2008 15:05
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sat, 19 July 2008 15:28
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: gkl21 on Sat, 19 July 2008 15:47
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 20 July 2008 04:02
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Sun, 20 July 2008 06:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Hex on Sun, 20 July 2008 04:49
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 20 July 2008 05:51
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Hex on Sun, 20 July 2008 06:23
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 20 July 2008 06:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Sun, 20 July 2008 08:09
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: gkl21 on Sun, 20 July 2008 08:14
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Sun, 20 July 2008 09:29
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: gkl21 on Sun, 20 July 2008 09:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Sun, 20 July 2008 13:47
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 20 July 2008 09:37
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Ghostshaw on Sun, 20 July 2008 09:59
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 20 July 2008 10:13
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 20 July 2008 12:00
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 20 July 2008 13:03
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 July 2008 14:35
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: gkl21 on Sun, 20 July 2008 15:04
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 July 2008 15:18
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Ghostshaw on Sun, 20 July 2008 13:55
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 20 July 2008 14:04
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: jnz on Sun, 20 July 2008 15:52
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 July 2008 16:45
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Sun, 20 July 2008 21:48
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Crimson on Sun, 20 July 2008 23:39
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Mon, 21 July 2008 00:07
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Chuck Norris on Mon, 21 July 2008 00:44
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Mon, 21 July 2008 01:01
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Mon, 21 July 2008 01:28
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Mon, 21 July 2008 12:07
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Ghostshaw on Mon, 21 July 2008 02:34
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Mon, 21 July 2008 03:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Mon, 21 July 2008 12:12
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Tue, 22 July 2008 08:35
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Tue, 22 July 2008 13:59
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Mon, 21 July 2008 13:23
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jamie or NuneGa on Tue, 22 July 2008 03:27
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: CarrierII on Tue, 22 July 2008 07:12
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: GoTWhisKéY on Tue, 22 July 2008 06:58
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 July 2008 07:05
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Tue, 22 July 2008 19:53
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Tue, 22 July 2008 23:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Wed, 23 July 2008 10:33
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Wed, 23 July 2008 12:56
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Wed, 23 July 2008 13:08
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: =HT=T-Bird on Wed, 23 July 2008 17:26
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jamie or NuneGa on Thu, 24 July 2008 06:58
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: =HT=T-Bird on Thu, 24 July 2008 07:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Thu, 24 July 2008 12:59
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jamie or NuneGa on Sat, 26 July 2008 04:47
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Rocko on Tue, 22 July 2008 20:01
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Wed, 23 July 2008 02:45
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Orca on Wed, 23 July 2008 04:57
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Spoony on Wed, 23 July 2008 20:51
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: =HT=T-Bird on Wed, 23 July 2008 09:17
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: gkl21 on Wed, 23 July 2008 13:48
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: GoTWhisKéY on Thu, 24 July 2008 07:41
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Gladiator on Thu, 31 July 2008 19:56
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Fri, 01 August 2008 00:45
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 01 August 2008 02:19
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: trooprm02 on Fri, 01 August 2008 07:50
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Sat, 02 August 2008 21:18
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 03 August 2008 03:01
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: trooprm02 on Sun, 03 August 2008 06:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Homey on Sun, 03 August 2008 07:05
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 03 August 2008 07:15
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: sadukar09 on Sun, 03 August 2008 05:07
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Gladiator on Sun, 03 August 2008 06:59
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Herr Surth on Sun, 03 August 2008 07:06
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 03 August 2008 07:11
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 03 August 2008 09:14
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 03 August 2008 10:13
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 03 August 2008 10:34
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 03 August 2008 10:39
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 03 August 2008 12:07
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Sun, 03 August 2008 12:15
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jamie or NuneGa on Sun, 03 August 2008 13:20
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Sun, 03 August 2008 13:39
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Sun, 03 August 2008 15:39
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Gladiator on Sun, 03 August 2008 17:02
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Chuck Norris on Sun, 03 August 2008 22:36
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: saberhawk on Sun, 03 August 2008 17:31
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: liquidv2 on Tue, 05 August 2008 20:44
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: saberhawk on Tue, 05 August 2008 22:12
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: trooprm02 on Sun, 03 August 2008 15:47
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: JoeBro on Sun, 03 August 2008 16:42
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Crimson on Mon, 04 August 2008 02:04
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: trooprm02 on Mon, 04 August 2008 06:46
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: EvilWhiteDragon on Mon, 04 August 2008 08:17
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: JoeBro on Mon, 04 August 2008 08:08
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: cmatt42 on Mon, 04 August 2008 22:17
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jamie or NuneGa on Tue, 05 August 2008 11:07
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: _SSnipe_ on Tue, 05 August 2008 11:10
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: trooprm02 on Mon, 04 August 2008 15:46
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: blly on Mon, 04 August 2008 22:21
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: saberhawk on Mon, 04 August 2008 22:45
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: _SSnipe_ on Mon, 04 August 2008 22:49
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Jellybe4n on Tue, 05 August 2008 10:27
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: w0dka on Tue, 05 August 2008 11:10
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: blly on Tue, 05 August 2008 12:03
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: saberhawk on Tue, 05 August 2008 12:30
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: gkl21 on Tue, 05 August 2008 13:30
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: blly on Tue, 05 August 2008 17:50
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Tue, 05 August 2008 23:45
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: StealthEye on Wed, 06 August 2008 02:41
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: _SSnipe_ on Wed, 06 August 2008 02:49
		Re: in regard to the points fix By: Goztow on Wed, 06 August 2008 02:52

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