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Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #223115 is a reply to message #220956] Thu, 28 September 2006 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Halo38 is currently offline  Halo38
Messages: 955
Registered: February 2003
Location: UK
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Colonel

I've been following this thread since it was first posted and it's a shame it has decended into a rich source of sarcastic jokes and insults, so I have decided to play the map and give my opinion based on 'experience' aimed at helping you razor in your future ren projects. please bear in mind i'm a perfectionist too Smile

I'm giving you my views as you made this map maybe becasue your creative or you liked the challenge and will most likly make something else for ren.

So I download it no problems there some screenshots would have been nice though to entice me

Started playing on 1 player Lan-

The battles are pretty good made me feel like I was playing single player at some points while fighting on foot though the vehicels on the right seem to be much more aggresive than on the left I'm certain I was never attacked by vechiles on the left but the ones on the right couldn't get enough of me Big Grin

You implied that it was the "experience" you wanted people to pay attention to so here is my thoughts on that.

To start with you can't tell people "this is the way you have to play this map" it just don't work like that everything you do when making the map has to compliment your ideas in this case the "experience" you were trying to create.

For example in C&C_Arid I wanted to create a town that infantry would fight in and around to gain an advantage over the other team for this reason going into the town has to give an advantage to the player entering into it or he won't enter the town he will go around it (smiple really) for this reason I made sure that players had a better attacking position against the enemies harvester and silo, made healing points in the town (beds) extra weapons and ammo spawns too. and players could leave the town easily by jumping over the walls to suprise attack the enemy this makes the town 'sexy' and it will often be used by players I hope Smile we will see when it is added the UNrules new maps rotation.

So back to your map - here is a list of things which I think were good in adding to the experience you were trying to create.

The Experience - Enhancing points

- There is only 1 buildings you spawn in, the wf, which is good, as you can control the players movements indirectly directing him from that start point (i bet most players when beginning if they didn't buy a vechile went left as i did as that was where the eye is drawn to - if they bought a vehicle they went right as that was where they were faceing) this may sound a bit trivial but it can be essential when trying to direct players to do what you want them to in a subconcious way.

- It was good that I met a very chatty GDI AI unit as soon as I left the building it felt like we were in the same fight as each other, and with a bit of prodding but he soon ran of the battle field with me (left) - using AI in this way greatly enhance the experience.

-The tank battle on the right was quite fierce

-There was an objective to destroy (the nod base) giving purpose to the map.

-Spawned weapons were a good thing

-No default advanced characters which was a good thing (come to why in a minute)

-Soldier AI did fight alot.

-The tank battle on the right had light tanks at the frontline and artilery behind them (how they would normally attack in ren online and in real life)



The Experience - Detrimental points + my opionion on how to improve them

Ok now the things that were detrimental to the experience you were trying to create.

-Battle's don't seem as fierce from the camera angle in a vehicle as it is so high and almost detached from the battle - for this reason I would say remove the wf all together and replace it with a barracks and to keep the advanced characters out of the game modify the purchase setting so that there are no charcters to buy or you could change the presets of all the charcters so that which ever one you bought they would have 100 health armour and a standard weapon c4 etc.... allowing someone to play as there favorite character is a plus on any ren map. to add variation to game play you could create alot of diffrent weapons spawners just outside the barracks in maybe a low sand bag walled weapons cache type area so as you run out you can grab some weapons and off to the battle, I say a low sand bag walled area as i didn't even realise that there were weapon spawns in the wf till i watched your video, and with only 1 exit to the barracks no one will miss them. The weapon spawners should have a long respawn time and a fairly long variation time as most players will grab all the weapons first time round die and then only a few will be available when they respawn creating variation in game play through the weapons you grant the player.

The main problem with vechiles is that they make the experience too easy to win players want a challenge if you have ever played the online mission maps you will understand why they are so popular mainly because they are very hard! - players love a challenge. I was able to march my mammoth tank through the right side through the entire nod army to their base destroying the airstrip before I was stopped.

Repair guys should be left out if you have vehicles or have limited ammo if you have vehicles in as it makes the game too easy.

The AI you first meet as you say is a little stupid which is a shame if they could be made to spawn somewhere where they run with you to the battle that would add to the experience.

The inclusion of a secret area with the air vehicles and extra weapons is also detrimental it's far away from the combat and also makes it too easy with the orcas.

The recon bikes don't seem to attack with weapons so if your in a vehicles there is no need to fear them, on foot how ever they seem to want to try to run you over one even tried to chase me up the hill that leads to the secret area it was nice that they took the initative to attack me while I was unaware - think how you can add more of that (spawning enemy round corners etc..)

Nod needed alot more turrets, base walls too something to make players want to fight to get inside and kill nod scum! Big Grin

the tunnel shortcut don't help with the experience it keeps you away from the main battle.

what would make it brilliant is if you did nothing the gdi base would eventually be over run by nod AI (troops at least - I know the limitations of vehicle AI) of course this would require alot of tweaking

Too many gdi GT makes the above impossible - IMO, none would be better putting the onus on the player to defend his base.

If your hell bent on including vehicles in this type of map give them very very long spawn times low health and armour limited ammo etc.. and no repair guns as I said.

I also saw GDI AI attacking unmanned Nod gun emplacements.

Music would be good too like some from the single player or if you really did pull of the experience well some dramatic orchestral piece maybe?


Art wise - comments

I like the tree is has an intersting eye catching distressed form

More diffrent textures would be good

The thanks you give to the people that helped you is quite tacky a readme comment is enough - unless you use some of my stuff then I would condone a huge banner Wink

The vegitation you dotted around the battle field is great


Technical stuff

Every modder knows that when you use a battles worth of AI in ren it's like kicking your system in the balls in terms of performance. you seem to have judges the impact that AI have on performance well i personally get 38 FPS average in battle i have to go to the back of the nod base climb a small hill so i can look at everything before i notice it dropped to around 28.

Lets remember that in the US TV's NTSC format in 30 FPS and in the UK PAL is 25 FPS, so in my opinion for an AI fan map where your not getting paid not going below 30 fps when it counts (during battle) is acceptable and you have done this I have no complaints about frame rate any one that goes against that really dosn't understand how much effort goes into making a fan map or the impact that AI has on the game.


Thats about it really haven't had a chance to proof read everything but i hope it helps in your future ren projects

Online Portfolio - www.chettle1.com

Renegade projects - Halo38's Den hosted by www.laeubi.de

Creator of : C&C_Arid, C&C_Ancients, C&C_Bio, C&C_Duel Arena

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