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Re: Abortion [split] [message #179581 is a reply to message #178164] Thu, 17 November 2005 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
SuperFlyingEngi is currently offline  SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
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Well, I suppose we've finally come to parting shots.

We'll never be able to agree with each other, that much has been obvious for over a year now. I make a post, you come to it with the intent of countering every bit of opinion, suggested policy, and referenced information in said post. When you make a post, I come to do exactly the same.

I can, in the past, claim that you used to be an interesting person of ideas to discuss ideals with. That has, however changed. What you used to contribute to forum discussions in generally felt political concepts has shriveled and blackened to a feeling of duty to protect what is Republican in the world. Where I can't be convinced that Republicans are doing good in the world, you can't be convinced that they aren't.

But there is one thing that seperates us entirely.

I say I used to enjoy your discussed opinions. The real reason that changed is your debate tactics, not so much the substance. To tell the truth, I really don't tire of listening to the political opinions of someone, on one condition, this condition being that they keep discussion civil. In the past year or so, your debate tactics have shifted from tolerance and civility to outright obnoxious dismissal and countless acts of ad hominem.

Your personal attacks are why I stopped caring for your arguments in any way, shape, or form. I quite frankly cannot stand it, and thus I cannot stand your arguments. I'm sure you think of your debating style still as being calm and reasoned through apparent logic, but that can no longer be held as true. That day is past and I fear will not come back any time too soon.

I can no longer post any source that is not trumpeted by the right of this forum, you central among them, as being biased against the President. This assumption every time is based not so much on reason for a belief in bias as it is that the source is contrary to the standing administration. As evidence of this I'd like to reference the Al Qaqaa ammunitions dump that I claimed the United States forces passed over and President George Bush failed to secure. My evidence for this was both reasonable logic, and testimony from an embedded reporter with an army group [I forget what degree of organization, spare me] who stopped only long enough to photograph the RDx dump. Additionally, the President's claim that that one group of 10-20 people secured the facility is rediculous as well. The site is the size of a town with roughly 1,000 buildings. It is this kind of evidence I consistently attempt to, and thus do, use as substantiation to my opinions. Not opinion pieces from democraticunderground.com or wherever.

Not surprisingly, the first thing that crossed your mind, along with the rest of the Renforums right's minds when you saw this topic was "How could this be wrong?" The possibility that it could be correct was so incredibly ludicrous to you, apparently, that it never even occured to you. You claim that I base every one of my arguments on one sole assumption and cannot be deviated from this one assumption; you are however guilty of this yourself.

While we're on the topic of unilateral thought processes, I really must insist that I do not hold President George W. Bush in absolute contempt. Just off the top of my head, I believe the war in Afghanistan was the right thing to do. There was a genuine war on terror. However, when I see the War in Iraq, I can discern next to no factual evidence actually justifying invading a sovereign nation and usurping their leader. Let me pose this question to you; When I see something I believe is wrong, what should I do? Personally, since it is the direction my nation is headed in, I believe I should voice my concerns. Is this so wrong? More and more so as time progresses, you have increasingly come to believe that it is. I fear that if you could have a 1984 in America led by President Bush, you would accept that willingly.

It is not physically possible to be more ignorant, myopic, or servile than to suggest that we must be so acceptive of the ideals of a government.

Hypothetically assuming that I am close-minded about the acceptability of President Bush's actions and that I believe everything he does is wrong, at least this cannot be seen as wrong.

On the other hand, being entirely close-minded about the perfect excellence of President Bush cannot be seen as wrong.

Until you seek to silence others who do not agree with his perfect excellence.

Too many times on these forums I have been the recipient of comments such as "shut up, you don't know anything." and "stupid liberal, go home." I hope you can come to realize how incredibly wrong such attempted opinion removals are and how dangerous the acceptance of such attempted removals can be. More or less, the one sign above all others of a fascist nation is the removal of contrary opinion towards the government from the ears of citizens. Surely you realize how dangerous this is.

No system is perfect without constant, unending criticism; this is due to the inherent fact that no system can be perfect. Especially not a system so manufactured as a government. And especially not one man. Not even if he is President. A common republican talking point, one I fear you partake in, is that a wartime President should not be criticized. No one should be foolish enough to be duped by this incredible, nigh-treasonous nonsense.

I really do hope you shy away from this. If you would only become civil and acceptive of ideas again, I would not only accept your opinion, but enjoy reading it and not seek to prove it wrong, but to seek to determine whether it is right or wrong. I would then only hope you would do the same for me.



If you've had enough of my mindless bickering, then fine. Have enough. But know that it is not only my right, but my obligation to voice every aspect, no matter how minute, of my criticism of the standing administration. Don't hate me for it, for if you do you are only a truly mindless pawn of those who only care for themselves, and you're just helping to destroy America. I know it sounds extrapolated from the genuine effects of your hate, but it really is not. If enough people rise to government with your idea of the submission of contrary ideas, America will wilt like a flower in a late-spring frost.

And we wouldn't want that, now, would we?

So ignore me or keep on hating. Your choice, really. I can't change your mind. But don't view my opinions as that which must be refuted and removed. I hope you change your idea of what contradiction means. And I hope you cease the disrespectful attacks upon myself. If you do I'll be more than thrilled to talk politics with you. Until such time, however, I won't exactly miss your company.

Have a nice day.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)

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