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Re: Abortion [split] [message #179038 is a reply to message #179022]

Sun, 13 November 2005 12:58

NeoSaber
Messages: 336
Registered: February 2003

Karma:

Recruit

Arcane1 wrote on Sun, 13 November 2005 11:28

So here is the bottom line question:
How is it that one law, or one set of rules made by a governing body can set the standards for all situations that may arise? How is it that a governing body that is removed from the situation entirely be allowed to tell any and all future citizens how to operate appropriately? Even if there was a "true" majority decision on what is "right" or "wrong", how can that standard be Appropriately applied to ALL future people that can be potentially affected? Certainly there are no other rules or laws that apply so broadly without individual consideration and having such immediacy and privacy issues. Certainly this is a case where the law does not allow for appeals after the fact, which is the basic guarantee against human fallibility in the legal system. What I see it boiling down to is how could I, or You, or Anyone else have the Right to make that decision arbitrarilary, across the board and without appeal for every person that will possibly be faced with such a decision?

There are a wide range of opinions and beliefs about the issue but they all boil down to just that: opinions and beliefs. Laws need to be made on the basis of what we know, or don't know about something not on what we believe or don't believe about something. We need hard facts about an issue to come to a satisfactory result. If we don't have objective information on which to proceed then we have to proceed with extreme caution. Science helps provide those facts. The fact of abortion is that a human life is ended by it. That's basic biology, proven as well as anything can be proven. From conception, an organism is a biological member of its species. It doesn't get much more clear than that.

By keeping it simple, a governing body can set a standard for all to obey. Science already shows that abortion kills a human being, who is physically incapable of committing any crime. Laws already say that killing a human being who has done no wrong is murder. Therefore abortion is murder. That's as plain and simple as one could get. Both standards were in place many years before issues like 'Roe v Wade' came before a court, or a legislature. Those standards hold true now, and will hold true forever. Court's can decide how finer details apply to individual cases over time, but the basic standard is there for all. Without it, you have no justice or order in society, it all falls into anarchy.

Governing bodies put laws in place as much to guide people as to maintain order. Murder is murder, and murder is wrong no matter how right it may feel at the time, or how much it doesn't seem like murder. When faced with a situation, there's a clear standard in place to guide you. Personally, there are some anti-war protesters I think should be shot. However, murder is murder, so I wouldn't do it.

In direct response to "What gives the government the right to interfere", its their purpose. A governing body, at least one elected by the society it governs, is mandated with objectively looking at a situation. A government has to look at all aspects without being involved in a situation and use that objectivity, that "detached perspective" to figure out what the standard should be.

If life and death decisions are left in the hands of people who are "emotionally involved" in the situation then we'd have chaos, for example: a suicidal person would be handed a gun and told to choose. Objective perspectives are what we need to make laws. Objectivity is what gives the government the right to get involved when it comes to issues where people's lives hang in the balance. Issues like abortion are decided in such short time frames, since pregnancy only lasts 9 months, that the objective view has to be taken. The decision is too great to leave to the subjective, emotional responses of people caught up in what's happening. If the government has any say at all in society, its at times like this.

Saying that may make me a heartless monster, but its the truth.

NeoSaber

Renegade Map Maker at CnC Source
Animator/Compiler/Level Editor/Object Rigger/Programmer for Red Alert: A Path Beyond

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[Message index]

		Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 16:41
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Sun, 06 November 2005 17:44
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:12
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: swahbuckler on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:30
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:41
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:49
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: swahbuckler on Sun, 06 November 2005 17:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:21
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Sun, 06 November 2005 19:32
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 19:48
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:12
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Mon, 07 November 2005 10:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:48
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:55
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:14
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:16
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Dundasbro on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:57
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 21:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Dundasbro on Sun, 06 November 2005 21:35
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:16
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Sun, 06 November 2005 23:32
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 01:40
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Mon, 07 November 2005 08:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Crimson on Mon, 07 November 2005 10:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 11:26
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: mrpirate on Mon, 07 November 2005 09:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Seeker on Mon, 07 November 2005 15:13
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Mon, 07 November 2005 15:22
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:30
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:04
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:49
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:56
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Mon, 07 November 2005 18:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 18:43
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:09
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:25
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 06:33
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 08:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Tue, 08 November 2005 06:52
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:33
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Wed, 09 November 2005 23:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Tue, 08 November 2005 07:28
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 15:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 15:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 16:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 08 November 2005 16:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:24
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:28
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 18:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Tue, 08 November 2005 18:36
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:37
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:56
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:58
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Crimson on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:03
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:22
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Wed, 09 November 2005 15:35
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: johny roberts on Wed, 09 November 2005 16:11
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Wed, 09 November 2005 19:58
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 15 November 2005 15:59
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Wed, 09 November 2005 23:33
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 01:09
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 07:21
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 13:32
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 17:16
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 02:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 08:21
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Goztow on Thu, 10 November 2005 08:02
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:41
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 17:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Goztow on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:56
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 10:20
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:36
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 19:08
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 20:12
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Thu, 10 November 2005 20:53
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Thu, 10 November 2005 22:35
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:09
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:16
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:56
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:13
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 16:20
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Fri, 11 November 2005 20:17
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sat, 12 November 2005 06:39
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sat, 12 November 2005 07:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sat, 12 November 2005 21:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Sat, 12 November 2005 22:13
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Sun, 13 November 2005 00:43
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 21:24
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 13 November 2005 09:28
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Sun, 13 November 2005 12:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 13 November 2005 13:39
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Sun, 13 November 2005 11:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sun, 13 November 2005 11:28
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 13 November 2005 13:17
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 15 November 2005 16:03
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Javaxcx on Wed, 16 November 2005 11:49
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Tue, 15 November 2005 21:15
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 16:11
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 17 November 2005 00:11
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Thu, 17 November 2005 13:55
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 17 November 2005 14:31
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Wed, 16 November 2005 16:35
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 17:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Wed, 16 November 2005 18:46
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 21:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Thu, 17 November 2005 16:15
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 17 November 2005 18:05
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 20 November 2005 02:18

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