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Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types [message #178594 is a reply to message #178164]

Wed, 09 November 2005 23:33

Arcane1
Messages: 28
Registered: November 2005
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago

Karma:

Recruit

Wow. Not too sure where to catch up from, but I know that I'm going to stay away from the Hippie and whether or not the eggs should be eaten.

Historically, when abortion was illegal there was a serious problem with "back alley" doctors, and a high rate of harm or death to the women that resorted to them. Does that justify legalizing abortion? No, I don't think so at all. I liked the idea of taxation/education in conjunction with abortion, but I'm not sure the it would fly past the ACLU. I was friends with a Judge in downstate IL that decided that a woman that had becme pregnant 3 times, and had killed one of the children and hurt another shoudl have the Norplant long term birth control implanted. She was barely of functional IQ, and lived in a trailer park near a less than nice bar. Seems that she had a habit of frequenting the bar and winding up pregnant, repeatedly. The ACLU got involved and after the whole thing was over it was deemed that her right to get pregnant was primary. Go figure.

One of the things that I have learned is that in issues like this the law is often not broad enough to encompass the issue very well. Making legal decisions with set parameters is one thing, dealing with Humans and their individual needs is quite another. The ability of any law to cover the needs of many is suspect at best, and the more intimate the matter is the more difficult the decisions become. Abortion is probably the epitome of this issue facing the US right now. We aren't so much deciding whether or not abortion should be legal, we are deciding whether it is or is not acceptable morally. Inherant to that is that ultimately there will be those that decide and those that are imposed upon. We all know that it is wrong to speed, and that going 80 in a 65 zone is illegal. How many people believe that it is "wrong"? We all know that murder is illegal, but there are times when it is "right" like in self-defense, but wrong in "cold blood". Of course there are those that will argue that murder is wrong under any conditions.

All of the logical and rational discussion has covered aspects that I certainly have left off of my daily thinking, as I operate more in the emotional based realm than the logical and haven't argued this issue in many years (10+). Certainly not trying to sound condescending, I am pretty awed by the arguments.

What I would ask is to consider it emotionally. Consider the issue not as a legal question, but as a first person question that could apply to you, your girlfriend, your wife, sister or friend. If it was your sister, that was in her senior year and did a stupid thing, would you want her to have to not graduate? Would you want your parents to have to start raising kids again? Don't think of this as a legal issue, think of it as a human issue. It is easy from a detached perspective to say that "This is right, this is wrong..." but when you are in the position things change. Rather like the saying that "there are no athiests on a battlefield", we all learn the other aspects of the issue when we step in them.

It is late for me, and my reality has been inundated by client issues, so I am off to sleep. I appreciate all of your comments. Oh, and one thing, is there a Mod that can split this thread off or at least change the title? Sheesh, that one is getting old.

Sarcasm

-Arcane1

It is time to realize that we have tread where it was unwise. Bring them home before another 2000 die. Every day sooner is another service member not wounded, maimed, killed or away from home.

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[Message index]

		Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 16:41
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Sun, 06 November 2005 17:44
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:12
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: swahbuckler on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:30
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:41
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:49
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: swahbuckler on Sun, 06 November 2005 17:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:21
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Sun, 06 November 2005 19:32
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 19:48
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:12
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Mon, 07 November 2005 10:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:48
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:55
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:14
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:16
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Dundasbro on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:57
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 21:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Dundasbro on Sun, 06 November 2005 21:35
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:16
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Sun, 06 November 2005 23:32
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 01:40
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Mon, 07 November 2005 08:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Crimson on Mon, 07 November 2005 10:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 11:26
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: mrpirate on Mon, 07 November 2005 09:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Seeker on Mon, 07 November 2005 15:13
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Mon, 07 November 2005 15:22
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:30
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:04
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:49
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:56
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Mon, 07 November 2005 18:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 18:43
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:09
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:25
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 06:33
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 08:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Tue, 08 November 2005 06:52
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:33
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Wed, 09 November 2005 23:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Tue, 08 November 2005 07:28
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 15:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 15:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 16:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 08 November 2005 16:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:24
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:28
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 18:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Tue, 08 November 2005 18:36
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:37
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:56
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:58
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Crimson on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:03
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:22
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Wed, 09 November 2005 15:35
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: johny roberts on Wed, 09 November 2005 16:11
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Wed, 09 November 2005 19:58
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 15 November 2005 15:59
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Wed, 09 November 2005 23:33
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 01:09
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 07:21
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 13:32
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 17:16
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 02:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 08:21
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Goztow on Thu, 10 November 2005 08:02
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:41
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 17:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Goztow on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:56
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 10:20
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:36
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 19:08
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 20:12
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Thu, 10 November 2005 20:53
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Thu, 10 November 2005 22:35
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:09
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:16
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:56
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:13
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 16:20
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Fri, 11 November 2005 20:17
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sat, 12 November 2005 06:39
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sat, 12 November 2005 07:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sat, 12 November 2005 21:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Sat, 12 November 2005 22:13
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Sun, 13 November 2005 00:43
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 21:24
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 13 November 2005 09:28
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Sun, 13 November 2005 12:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 13 November 2005 13:39
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Sun, 13 November 2005 11:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sun, 13 November 2005 11:28
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 13 November 2005 13:17
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 15 November 2005 16:03
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Javaxcx on Wed, 16 November 2005 11:49
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Tue, 15 November 2005 21:15
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 16:11
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 17 November 2005 00:11
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Thu, 17 November 2005 13:55
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 17 November 2005 14:31
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Wed, 16 November 2005 16:35
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 17:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Wed, 16 November 2005 18:46
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 21:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Thu, 17 November 2005 16:15
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 17 November 2005 18:05
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 20 November 2005 02:18

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