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Zell Miller's an ass. [message #113839] Fri, 10 September 2004 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
NukeIt15 is currently offline  NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma:
Colonel
*goes up the list to find points to pick on*

Damn, it's a whole stinkin' pile of it!

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In their warped way of thinking, America is the problem, not the solution.
Wouldn't Republicans be closer to this way of thinking, like when Ronald Reagan called government the problem, not the solution?


America is not the government. The government REPRESENTS America, but is never to be used as a synonym for it.

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Now, there were some weapons systems that come up on individual bills, like when the F-15 became out-dated, and needed to be cut, it would come up on a bill, and everyone would vote to cut funding to the plane because it was no longer needed. In the case of the F-15, the Defense Secretary who put it on the chopping block was none other than Dick Cheney.


Ooh, fun, a bit about my favorite plane... FYI, the F-15 has been in operational service since the mid-70's. It has gone through several variants, including the original F-15A(single-seat air superiority fighter), F-15B(two-seat trainer), F-15C(the upgraded and current single-seat air superiotity fighter), F-15D(two-seat upgrade), and F-15E(two seat strike fighter). It remains in service and is still one of the most capable aircraft in the world, and second only to the MiG-25 in raw speed. Its replacement, the F-22, has not yet entered service. You must be talking about either an earlier variant or a particular production run, because the F-15 is still alive and kicking ass, and very much up-to-date. Wink

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Have you, or have you not, said that we are the reason that the terrorists hate us? Because I can assure you that a lot of the world and most liberals believe it. You're trying to relate this very erroneously.


Danger! Danger Will Robinson! That's a statement that is an unproven assumption. I know quite a few of what you would define as "liberals," and I can assure you that none of them believe the US brought terrorist attacks on itself. Most of them want to plant a load of high explosives up bin Laden's ass just the same as most of the conservatives do. I have only heard a few people make the "it's our fault" assumption, and I have never met any of them face to face. I'm not saying that some idiots don't believe that crap, but you'd be making a pretty hefty assumption in believing that such stupidity is confined to only one side of the political spectrum.

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Yeah, and Vietnam was over 30 years ago...


Yeah, I've finally come to that conclusion as well. In fact, the war ended over a decade before I was born, so it really has no effect on me. My final conclusion is that BOTH presidential candidates did something less than honorable/legal, just like millions of other people in that era. Whoop-dee-freakin' doo.

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Yeah, that's funny... most Democrats voted against Civil Rights... now they walk around acting like they're the black man's only hope.


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That was back when there were a large amount of rascist Southern democrats. Learn your history. But here it goes. Okay, so, back in the day, Lincoln abolished slavery. So, in the South, after that, Lincoln was a Republican, right? So the people who opposed him joined up with the Democratic party in the South. These people were rascist. They started to vanish after the Civil Rights Act was passed.


WOW. This is moving beyond arguments about the honesty and integrity of political candidates. Now we're beginning to get into events that were set into motion before the candidates' FATHERS were born, and hardly even have any connection to the candidates themselves. Come on, people, will you really say ANYTHING to harp on the other side?

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I'm not saying the terrorists hate us for who we are, but we have performed hostile actions ways back that we tend to forget about. Like, when we shelled the Bekaa Valley with one of our battleships during Israel's big fight with the Middle East after it was established. Well, a whole bunch of terrorists live in the Bekaa Valley, and they were pretty pissed when we killed their friends and family.


Yet they(al-Qaida and their cronies) provide no other reason for their attacks than to "kill the infidels." And they attacked CIVILIANS, not legitimate military targets. I could almost, ALMOST understand how you arrived at your conclusions if it were ONLY the Pentagon that was attacked, and if it had been done with an EMPTY airliner instead of one filled with innocents. Instead, they choose to kill people who had done absolutely nothing wrong besides going to work in the morning like they always did.

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Clinton had 8 years and he didn't do much... if he had, September 11th, 2001 would have been just another happy Tuesday.


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I've already posted this two seperate times in different threads, but apparently you have chosen to ignore it both times.


The truth is that no one really thought that anyone would dare attack on US soil. The last attack of such scale on US turf was by Japan in 1941; 60 years is a long time for complacency to get itself embedded in the thoughts of both population and government.

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Not imminent enough for us to dash in after blowing off the UN. Not nearly.


The UN still has no authority that supercedes the right of our government to declare war if they feel the country is at risk. Whether or not there was a threat, a threat was percieved, and it is FAR better to find out you were wrong after dealing with the possibility of said threat than to find out you were right after the schmuck kills American citizens.

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Yeah, I've seen his testimony, but what are you saying? That this didn't happen?


Are YOU saying that you can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that it DID? Remember, Engi, it's innocent until proven guilty in this country, not the other way around.

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Cheney said we will be attacked by terrorists, trying to scare people into voting Bush. Kerry said Bush is weak on defense. While somewhat the same, they aren't the same thing.


They're both accusing each other of the same damn thing. One is saying, basically, that the other sucks/will suck at keeping America safe. Where is the difference, except that one has not yet had the chance to suck?

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And Clinton didn't actively dodge the draft, he just got lucky with them not calling him in for service with their crazy birthday system.


Actually, he DID actively avoid the draft. But, like I said, this all happened years before I was hatched.

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Not like George Bush, who got daddy to send him to the National Guard


That would only really be draft dodging if his unit had been mobilized and he hadn't shown up. And then it would technically be desertion, since he WAS in the military. In case you didn't know, there was a chance that the National Guard could have been sent overseas as well; certain units of the Guard have been sent out to Iraq and Afghanistan. While there is a smaller chance of it happening than, say, joining the regular Air Force, the chance still existed, and Bush was closer to the war than Clinton(who never entered the military) was. Just to clear up how the Guard works. Now Bush may or may not have skipped out on some of his service, but it really makes no fucking difference for an election over 30 years later. Whether he served his time or not, I am not any more inclined to vote for or against him than I was yesterday.

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Where the heck do you come up with this? It appears to me that the Left is still racist. Why else would they keep giving them special consideration as if they're less capable than whites? Oh wait, these are the same people who don't trust us to spend our own money or manage our retirement funds.


You didn't just attach two completely different topics together at random did you? Oh, wait, you did. Either way...

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Of course we haven't done everything right... but when you have a child who throws a temper tantrum and breaks things when they don't get their way, you don't give in.


A temper tantrum isn't at all comparable to the sick shit terrorists do. Temper tantroms don't slaughter children, terrorists do- and they deserve to die for it.

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I've thought the same thing myself. That's one of the reasons I've been such an activist is because I truly believe that our lives depend on not voting Democrat.


I certainly would not go that far. But I also certainly will not vote Democrat. Or Republican, for that matter.

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I want a president that says US US US! Not a president that says VIETNAM VIETNAM VIETNAM!


DAMN did that hit the bullseye dead on- even if you weren't aiming for the target you hit. It would rock if some candidate would stand up and do that, wouldn't it?

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The question is: who is the lesser of two evils? My understanding is that both are fairly bad choices.


Then don't vote for either. If both, suck, stand up and say it by finding someone who does look like they'll do a better job. There's nothing more American than being an underdog.

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Those hijackers didn't wake up one morning thinking "hey, let's fly a plane into a building", you know.


No, you're right. They woke up every morning and thought that. That's what they were thinking right up until they did exactly that.

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I got that from my 8th grade history class, when we were going over the origins of both American political parties. And privatizing social security is still a terrible idea.


That's 8th grade history. Like it or not, and no matter what you may believe, those who are in or have graduated high school and college will be more knowledgeable on the same subjects. You simply have not reached the same level of education yet- not to say you're any less intelligent, just less informed.

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So, us killing their families doesn't excuse them from killing our families? While I fully believe 9/11 was a depraved act orchestrated by crazy people, those crazy people were responding to what we had done to them.


Horse shit. I defy you to prove that any of the terrorists involved in planning or carrying out 9/11 had ANY close family killed in the events you mentioned. Please. And cousins of cousins' former roomates don't count here. Hell, they didn't even attack the families of the people that were involved in the strikes you mentioned! They just went after the most vulnerable, soft, ripe targets they could set their sick sights on.

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He was just trying not be to controversial there. No one really knows why we're in Iraq any more, but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with al Qaeda.


And you would know this...how? Proof? Logic? Little birdies chirping in your ear? You don't know the reasons we're still over there. No one does except the people who make such decisions, and the people who are ordered to see those decisions carried out.

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And John Kerry went and testified to try and get our soldiers out of an atrocities war.


Honestly, what truly makes you believe that Kerry is any more likely to tell the truth than Bush? I still have yet to see a reason from either side why their candidate should be trusted, when both seem intent on proving that their opponents are skunks.

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Overall, however, I strongly believe that there will be a terrorist attack on our nation shortly before the election in an attempt to sway the vote. I only hope that the country pulls their heads back out of their asses and votes for Bush if that happens.


As long as we're expecting it, there will be no attack. Or perhaps the fear of an attack is an attack in and of itself? Something to think about. Terrorism works best when the victims aren't expecting it- but its effects are felt even when it does not strike. Look at Israel, and tell me if you wouldn't be terrified every time you got on a bus...even if it isn't bombed, how do you know it won't be? No candidate will be able to fully erase, or even put a major dent in the effect terror has had on this country, or any other. The damage has already been done- or, more accurately, it is still being done.

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we did that for 600 years and it failed, yet less than a decade of negotiations has worked. Think about it.


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Seeing as if we get close to any of them, they'll just blow themselves up. That makes it just a little bit harder to negotiate when you have that as a danger.


That, and the terrorists we are currently dealing with have no interest in negotiations. They want to annihilate us, not negotiate with us. BIG difference from Ireland. Those guys didn't intend to kill and maim every living person who didn't follow them.

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine

Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.

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