| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99780] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 22:01   |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
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| PointlessAmbler |
No, you're just trying to lash out in some way, no semicolons were required in that post. None.
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I can't tell if you're trying to be funny here... While telling me ACK didn't make any mistakes, you made the same mistake that he did.
If you actually look at rules of semicolon usage, you'll see that when you have two independent clauses that are not joined by a conjunction or a correlative, you need to use a semicolon to join them. (Alternately you could use a period and make it two sentences, but you can't merely use a comma.)
-EXAMPLES-
INCORRECT:
No, you're just trying to lash out in some way, no semicolons were required in that post.
CORRECT:
No, you're just trying to lash out in some way; no semicolons were required in that post.
No, you're just trying to lash out in some way. No semicolons were required in that post.
INCORRECT:
Use punctuation, it's your friend!
CORRECT:
Use punctuation; it's your friend!
[Updated on: Mon, 05 July 2004 23:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99781] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 22:18 |
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PointlessAmbler
Messages: 318
Registered: February 2004
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Semicolons are misused so much they've almost completely fallen out of common use anyway. Commas are widely accepted in places where semicolons can be.
When you start getting into this level of detail, the English language is poorly documented and people tend to disagree, so as long as people have basic sentence structure right and spell their words correctly, does it really matter? This is a discussion forum, half the people on it can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're" anyway.
Red Alert: A Path Beyond Manual Writer
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99783] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 22:38 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
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| PointlessAmbler |
Semicolons are misused so much they've almost completely fallen out of common use anyway. Commas are widely accepted in places where semicolons can be.
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If by "common use" you mean "common use by the section of society that can't even read at an 8th grade level," then I'd agree with you. But just because a bunch of ignoramuses use commas incorrectly, that doesn't make it right. Regardless of what the hick down the street who still thinks the Confederates won the Civil War may think, commas are NOT acceptable in place of semicolons. Commas may be widely misused, but that does not mean that their misuse is accepted. It just means that the misuse is rampant.
Also, your first statement is completely wrong. If semicolons were misused a lot, then we would see lots of semicolons all over the place. The real reason you don't see semicolons is that people are dumb fucks who don't realize that there are forms of punctuation other than the comma.
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99787] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 22:45 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
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| PointlessAmbler |
When you start getting into this level of detail, the English language is poorly documented and people tend to disagree, so as long as people have basic sentence structure right and spell their words correctly, does it really matter? This is a discussion forum, half the people on it can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're" anyway.
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Actually, there's a pretty huge consensus on the proper use of semicolons. I just checked half a dozen or so different sources (on the internet and in textbooks I own) and found absolutely no conflicting rules.
And as for the question of whether or not it matters, you should probably take that up with ACK. He's the one who started this whole thing. The point of my post wasn't "Hey everybody, look how to use a semicolon! Isn't it exciting?" The point of my post was that ACK shouldn't nitpick with people about their grammar mistakes, because he makes countless grammar mistakes himself.
Oh, one other thing -- proper usage of commas and semicolons is part of basic sentence structure.
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99788] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 22:47 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
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General (1 Star) |
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| mahkra |
But just because a bunch of ignoramuses use commas incorrectly, that doesn't make it right.
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:yell:
sry d00d, just couldn't pass that one up.
Also, I think what ACK was really getting at was how annoying it is to read "i" instead of "I", "your" where "you're" should be in place, and so forth. Grammatical errors that go further than that are negligable, as they are rarely noticed. I've seen intelligent men who can argue their point use commas where semicolons or full stops should be used; I don't think it makes someone a tool, just someone who didn't pay enough attention to their message.
[Updated on: Mon, 05 July 2004 22:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99790] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 22:57 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
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General (1 Star) |
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You used that comma incorrectly in the same sentence you called people who use commas incorrectly ignoramuses.
Or am I completely wrong and being an ass? :oops:
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99794] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 23:12 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
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| flyingfox |
You used that comma incorrectly in the same sentence you called people who use commas incorrectly ignoramuses.
Or am I completely wrong and being an ass? :oops:
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I didn't misuse the comma. The "because blah blah blah" part was an introductory clause. Introductory clauses should be set apart from the rest of a sentence by a comma. If you put the clause at the end of a sentence, however, a comma should not be used.
-CORRECT EXAMPLES-
Because I ate an entire pie, I feel stuffed.
I feel stuffed because I ate an entire pie.
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99928] |
Tue, 06 July 2004 13:24 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
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General (1 Star) |
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| mahkra |
I didn't misuse the comma. The "because blah blah blah" part was an introductory clause. Introductory clauses should be set apart from the rest of a sentence by a comma. If you put the clause at the end of a sentence, however, a comma should not be used.
-CORRECT EXAMPLES-
Because I ate an entire pie, I feel stuffed.
I feel stuffed because I ate an entire pie.
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Looking at this again it wasn't the comma I thought out of place. It was the first word after the comma, "that"; I don't think I've seen a sentence like that pass off. The sentence would have looked right if you left out "that":
| Quote: |
But just because a bunch of ignoramuses use commas incorrectly, doesn't make it right.
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This would go with your explanation on introductory clauses and the rest of the sentence. Let's look at your examples again; if they were worded in the way the sentence I pointed out was, the first would look like this:
Incorrect
Because I ate an entire pie, now I feel stuffed.
Correct
Because I ate an entire pie, I feel stuffed.
Now I feel stuffed because I ate an entire pie.
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #99954] |
Tue, 06 July 2004 15:07 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
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Actually, my sentence needs the 'that'. Without it, the second clause is a dependent clause, and you can't make a sentence by linking together two dependent clauses. One of them needs to be independent.
You can think of an independent clause as something that can be a sentence all by itself. "Because people use commas incorrectly" is not a sentence by itself, and neither is "doesn't make it right." "That doesn't make it right," however, IS a complete sentence by itself.
Incidentally, all the examples you gave at the end are okay. "Now I feel stuffed" and "I feel stuffed" are both independent clauses, so the sentence works either way.
You're not completely off, though. When you use 'that' in place of 'which', you don't put a comma before the 'that', but you would if you used 'which'.
EXAMPLES:
"The garage that my uncle built is falling down."
"The garage, which my uncle built, is falling down."
I used 'that' in a different way though.
EDIT: You could say "People's misuse of commas doesn't make it right." Perhaps that sounds better?
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| why does the humvee have so little armor???? [message #100018] |
Tue, 06 July 2004 22:59 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
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| PointlessAmbler |
Often times sentences that only have one clause are the best.
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Actually, it's really a matter of opinion, but the general consensus is that the best writing involves a variety of sentence structures so as to not become repetitive and boring. The only things you'll find that are written with only one-clause sentences are children's primers. ("Is Spot under the basket? Is Spot in the closet? Where is Spot? Spot is on the sofa!")
Also, to flyingfox:
I just noticed you're from Scotland, so I might have been wrong to correct you. I don't know the punctuation/grammar rules of British English, but I know they're not exactly the same as those of American English. So for all I know, what you said may be correct under British rules.
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