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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95737] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 14:46   |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Go and learn what happened in World War 2, then you can make a crediable argument.
I never said the means are worse than the ends. I said the ends don't justify the means, and they do not. Stop beating around the issue and give some crediable proof that says "Iraq has WMD" with pictures of the warheads, because you're CONTINUING to justify yourself only by saying: "OFMGGGGGG THEAR IS WMD I DUNO 4 SHUR BUT I NO!! I DO!!!" and launching a dispicable Shock and Awe compaign.
Saying that Iraq has WMD does not make it so. You ASSUME they have them. Just as the UN, the "world leaders" and countless others did. Assuming something does NOT justify a war. I could assume that you have WMDs on the assumption that you're a raving war monger. But that probably isn't true, now is it?
You don't need to kill millions of people to justify a war. It takes ONE innocent life lost to a United States bomb, or ONE United States bullet to make this war unjust. It's JUST that technical. I guaruntee you this has happened, and if you say otherwise, you're an idiot.
Furthermore, the UN has, and would have continued to send inspectors to Iraq to inspect their arms. Check the damn report instead of working around it. The inspection on the AS2 missles and their destruction was dated March 17th, 2003. That means the UN was STILL watching Iraq non-proliferate. It's like telling someone not to do something, and kicking them anyway.
Of course, if you want to live in your media-inspired world, where you guys are the knights in shining armour, go right ahead. I'll be sitting up here in the north laughing at you while you think the world is your oyster to do whatever you want with.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95740] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 15:02 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Javaxcx |
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Go and learn what happened in World War 2, then you can make a crediable argument.
I never said the means are worse than the ends. I said the ends don't justify the means, and they do not. Stop beating around the issue and give some crediable proof that says "Iraq has WMD" with pictures of the warheads, because you're CONTINUING to justify yourself only by saying: "OFMGGGGGG THEAR IS WMD I DUNO 4 SHUR BUT I NO!! I DO!!!" and launching a dispicable Shock and Awe compaign.
Saying that Iraq has WMD does not make it so. You ASSUME they have them. Just as the UN, the "world leaders" and countless others did. Assuming something does NOT justify a war. I could assume that you have WMDs on the assumption that you're a raving war monger. But that probably isn't true, now is it?
You don't need to kill millions of people to justify a war. It takes ONE innocent life lost to a United States bomb, or ONE United States bullet to make this war unjust. It's JUST that technical. I guaruntee you this has happened, and if you say otherwise, you're an idiot.
Furthermore, the UN has, and would have continued to send inspectors to Iraq to inspect their arms. Check the damn report instead of working around it. The inspection on the AS2 missles and their destruction was dated March 17th, 2003. That means the UN was STILL watching Iraq non-proliferate. It's like telling someone not to do something, and kicking them anyway.
Of course, if you want to live in your media-inspired world, where you guys are the knights in shining armour, go right ahead. I'll be sitting up here in the north laughing at you while you think the world is your oyster to do whatever you want with.
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I'm tired of you shit and you biased lies. I am going to ask you one question.
Would you have lived in Iraq while Saddam was in charge of it?
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95742] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 15:13 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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The last resort of a beaten fool, the "OMG U DUNNO WAT UR TAWKIN BOUT" card.
I don't live in Iraq, and likely never will, so that question is irrelevant to me.
I would however, like to have seen the United States administration show some maturity and patience before taking it upon themselves to do something. It goes against your own Bill of Rights, and you're too blantently stupid to see that.
Now before you start rambling on with "OMG BUT PPL WUD HAEV DIED IF WE W8ED 4 PERMISHIN!!!!", know that I agree with you fully. But the fact of the matter remains that innocent people died before the attack, during the attack, and are still dying in Iraq. Innocent people would have died in any circumstance, friend.
Just wait until after this campaign is over. You might finally see past the shroud that FOXNEWS has placed conviently in front of you.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95744] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 15:39 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Javaxcx |
The last resort of a beaten fool, the "OMG U DUNNO WAT UR TAWKIN BOUT" card.
I don't live in Iraq, and likely never will, so that question is irrelevant to me.
I would however, like to have seen the United States administration show some maturity and patience before taking it upon themselves to do something. It goes against your own Bill of Rights, and you're too blantently stupid to see that.
Now before you start rambling on with "OMG BUT PPL WUD HAEV DIED IF WE W8ED 4 PERMISHIN!!!!", know that I agree with you fully. But the fact of the matter remains that innocent people died before the attack, during the attack, and are still dying in Iraq. Innocent people would have died in any circumstance, friend.
Just wait until after this campaign is over. You might finally see past the shroud that FOXNEWS has placed conviently in front of you.
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Totally skip the fucking question.
You are a fucking loser.
How can you expect to let others live under him if you will not live under him?
Fucking self centered prick.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95747] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 15:54 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Javaxcx |
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Go and learn what happened in World War 2, then you can make a crediable argument.
I never said the means are worse than the ends. I said the ends don't justify the means, and they do not. Stop beating around the issue and give some crediable proof that says "Iraq has WMD" with pictures of the warheads, because you're CONTINUING to justify yourself only by saying: "OFMGGGGGG THEAR IS WMD I DUNO 4 SHUR BUT I NO!! I DO!!!" and launching a dispicable Shock and Awe compaign.
Saying that Iraq has WMD does not make it so. You ASSUME they have them. Just as the UN, the "world leaders" and countless others did. Assuming something does NOT justify a war. I could assume that you have WMDs on the assumption that you're a raving war monger. But that probably isn't true, now is it?
You don't need to kill millions of people to justify a war. It takes ONE innocent life lost to a United States bomb, or ONE United States bullet to make this war unjust. It's JUST that technical. I guaruntee you this has happened, and if you say otherwise, you're an idiot.
Furthermore, the UN has, and would have continued to send inspectors to Iraq to inspect their arms. Check the damn report instead of working around it. The inspection on the AS2 missles and their destruction was dated March 17th, 2003. That means the UN was STILL watching Iraq non-proliferate. It's like telling someone not to do something, and kicking them anyway.
Of course, if you want to live in your media-inspired world, where you guys are the knights in shining armour, go right ahead. I'll be sitting up here in the north laughing at you while you think the world is your oyster to do whatever you want with.
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Every war in the history of man is unjust with your logic.
Yes that includes world war 2. How many civilians were killed in that war?
UN weapons inspectors could not have known what Iraq had for sure because they had not been there since 1998.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95754] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 16:05 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Nodbugger |
If you wouldn't live under Saddam what makes you think the people of Iraq liked it?
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I never said they liked it. Nor did I imply it. Try reading my posts before posting irrelevant things like this, or putting words in my mouth.
Here's a good example that maybe you can wrap your head around. Remember in Renegade, mission #2? Havoc, against orders, takes off and attacks the beach head. The US did this with the UN. In fact, after Havoc got back to base, he was thrown in jail. His ends did not justify his means, otherwise he wouldn't have been put in temporary confinement.
While only an analogy, it should be clear enough for even YOU to understand.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95756] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 16:07 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Javaxcx |
| Nodbugger |
If you wouldn't live under Saddam what makes you think the people of Iraq liked it?
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I never said they liked it. Nor did I imply it. Try reading my posts before posting irrelevant things like this, or putting words in my mouth.
Here's a good example that maybe you can wrap your head around. Remember in Renegade, mission #2? Havoc, against orders, takes off and attacks the beach head. The US did this with the UN. In fact, after Havoc got back to base, he was thrown in jail. His ends did not justify his means, otherwise he wouldn't have been put in temporary confinement.
While only an analogy, it should be clear enough for even YOU to understand.
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Gulf War never ended. The Cease fire said the coalition or the UN could resume the war.
Well The US, England , and Australia were the main forces in both wars.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95764] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 16:35 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/cron/
The Gulf war is over.
Now for the inspections:
"20 Nov 1997
Following intensive diplomatic action, Iraq accedes to an agreement with the Russian Federation providing for UNSCOM and its full complement of staff to resume work in Iraq. The commission’s personnel return to Iraq on 21 November and resume their inspections the following day."
This worked until:
"13 Jan 1998
UNSCOM chief Richard Butler reports to the Council that during the first day of an inspection, Iraq announced it was withdrawing its cooperation with the inspection team, claiming that the inspection team had too many individuals of US or UK nationality"
"Early Feb 1998
A group of international experts and UNSCOM inspectors conduct two technical evaluation meetings (TEM) in Baghdad, reviewing Iraq’s VX and missile warhead programs. The report submitted to the Security Council states the group’s unanimous conclusion that Iraq has still not provided sufficient information for the commission to conclude that Iraq had undertaken all the disarmament steps required of it in these areas. The commission’s experts brief the Council on the outcome of these two TEMs in March 1998. "
This is an inspection. The brief period Iraq chose not to cooperate seemed to have only lasted for roughly 17 or 18 days, give or take. During which time, I'd like for you to note that Iraq was STILL being watched, although to their own terms of non-cooperation:
"22 Jan 1998
Following a visit to Iraq, Richard Butler reports to the Security Council that despite the council’s statement insisting on unrestricted access to all sites, Iraq would not permit access to eight so-called presidential sites"
Thats an awfully small gap. Seeing how Iraq was still being watched, WMD transport (if any) would've been detected.
So again, how does this have anything to do with the events of the Quarterly Report of May 2003? That report states nicely that Iraq is disarming. Hell, there were resolutions written that Iraq agreed fully to:
"20-23 Feb 1998
Annan visits Iraq. As a result of his meetings, the United Nations and Iraq agree to terms of a memorandum of understanding (MoU), which is signed on 23 February 1998. Annan secures Iraq’s pledge that it accepts all relevant Security Council resolutions, and will cooperate fully with UNSCOM and the IAEA. The MoU obligates Iraq to provide UNSCOM and the IAEA immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access for their inspections. The United Nations reiterates the commitment of all member states to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq"
And whats this? That last line? That was conviently ignored in March 2003, don't you think?
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95767] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 16:46 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Nodbugger |
Kuwait? They were under attack, but we decided to not go all the way in. Do you think it was smart to do that?
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I seriously can't believe you. I mean, wow. It's just mind boggling. The objective was not to go farther, as the threat had been surpressed. In fact, there were reprocussions to ENSURE the threat would remain surpressed, and until March 2003, there was no threat.
Since you're obviously inept to find this yourself, go here: http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/offdocs/b920330.htm
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I know we didn't do that with Hitler.
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Of course the Allies didn't do that with Hitler. Hitler attacked THEM, not the other way around.
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Ever hear of the lend lease act? Ya we were giving billions out to Europe and Russia.
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Note how the United States did not send a single unit or squadron over to the east until after Pearl Harbour. Canada has been supplying the war on Iraq too, but not with manpower.
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So Saddam killing his own people is none of business?
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It's the UN's business. Not the United States'.
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The stupid keeps flowing.
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Then close your mouth.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95772] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 17:24 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Javaxcx |
| Nodbugger |
Kuwait? They were under attack, but we decided to not go all the way in. Do you think it was smart to do that?
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I seriously can't believe you. I mean, wow. It's just mind boggling. The objective was not to go farther, as the threat had been surpressed. In fact, there were reprocussions to ENSURE the threat would remain surpressed, and until March 2003, there was no threat.
Since you're obviously inept to find this yourself, go here: http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/offdocs/b920330.htm
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I know we didn't do that with Hitler.
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Of course the Allies didn't do that with Hitler. Hitler attacked THEM, not the other way around.
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Ever hear of the lend lease act? Ya we were giving billions out to Europe and Russia.
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Note how the United States did not send a single unit or squadron over to the east until after Pearl Harbour. Canada has been supplying the war on Iraq too, but not with manpower.
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So Saddam killing his own people is none of business?
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It's the UN's business. Not the United States'.
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The stupid keeps flowing.
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Then close your mouth.
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The Gulf War never ended. A cease fire does not mean it ended.
As for the Iraq sovereignty thing. Fuck that. Saddam fucked up now we got rid of him. Stop bitching about a good thing.
We were prepared to go all the way to Baghdad.
Saddam was a threat to the Iraqi people. Get it through your thick skull. Selfish asshole.
Hitler attacked an ally, as did Saddam. we just prolonged getting rid of him.
We send tons of pilots to fight in Britain. We didn't concern ourselves with it because it was just another European war. We got dragged into world war 1 and look what that got us!
Canada has not provided anything for the war except an anti-war stance.
The UN is the United States. It is our business to bring things to the attention of the UN. It is our business to keep us safe. It is our business. If you UN won't fucking do it we will.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95773] |
Wed, 16 June 2004 18:05 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Nodbugger |
The Gulf War never ended. A cease fire does not mean it ended.
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I'll tell you what. Wait until Kirby posts. He'll tell you that war is over. I don't know how that will make a difference to you though. I mean, your own President at the time said it was over too (as stated in that link), but I guess you chose to ignore that. Figures, eh?
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As for the Iraq sovereignty thing. Fuck that. Saddam fucked up now we got rid of him. Stop bitching about a good thing.
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Saying "fuck that" doesn't justify your war. You are still beatting around the bush, kid. Furthermore, I didn't say capturing Saddam was a bad thing, I said the opposite. Learn to read.
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We were prepared to go all the way to Baghdad.
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Correction, you were not prepared at the time the Gulf War ended. The man power and the resources were not present to take Baghdad without Vietnam-like casualty counts. Furthermore, your President said that you would NOT be going to Baghdad as your "enemy was defeated". Stop disregarding my proof because you're afraid that you might just be wrong.
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Saddam was a threat to the Iraqi people.
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Agreed. I don't know how many more times I need to tell this to you before it sinks into YOUR thick skull.
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Hitler attacked an ally, as did Saddam. we just prolonged getting rid of him.
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You removed him from Kuwait, and the UN set restrictions and enforcement through UN investigations on non-proliferation. There is no prolonging, as the US campaign was finished. Get it? DONE.
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We send tons of pilots to fight in Britain. We didn't concern ourselves with it because it was just another European war.
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I never said that America didn't send supplies. I said the opposite, and yet AGAIN, you fail to read the whole post. There were no American Squadrons in the Battle of Britain.
http://www.battle-of-britain.com/
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Canada has not provided anything for the war except an anti-war stance.
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Idiot. Canadian Role in Iraq
"Canada has committed $300 million Cdn to the effort and is currently training Iraqi police in Jordan. It's also forgiving $750 million in Iraqi debts."
That is support.
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The UN is the United States.
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Lady's and Gentlemen, the most ignorant statement of the day!
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It is our business to bring things to the attention of the UN. It is our business to keep us safe. It is our business. If you UN won't fucking do it we will.
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You're forgetting that the United States also made a commitment to the UN. Going around that commitment to fight a "War on Terror" hardly justifies the resolve.
It is NOT your business to independantly take it upon yourself to "rid the world of evil" and instill your beloved democrasies where ever you see fit. It's against your own laws, and it's against international law.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Michael Moore Has Competition. [message #95790] |
Thu, 17 June 2004 10:01 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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There are a great many things wrong with your statements NodBugger.
I am not even going to touch the tip of the iceberg on them.
Remember what America is about. Not international policing, but freedom. Our country is heading towards financial Imperialism irregardless of Democratic or Republican administration.
I beleive GW is a good man. I believe he thinks what he is doing is right. I support him because he has strength of resolve, and more charachter than anyone since Ronnie. I believe that in the end he will have proven himself vindicated, but I don't have to agree with everything he does.
America is losing what has made it special for so long, and is becoming like every other Global power that couldn't make the cut.
We need to restore what we have lost, not distort the truth, ruin public trust, deal in secret meeting, and circumvent Global organizations WE instituted to prevent the very things we are now doing.
You clearly need to study. Take time to read material on both sides of the issue, and find resources that were printed when the events happened. Then you will start to see the scope of what's at stake, and what merits action, and what doesn't.
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