Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention
| Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9384] |
Mon, 24 March 2003 19:51  |
havocsnipe
Messages: 45
Registered: March 2003
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The reference to the Geneva Convention by the “All-Lies” has surpassed hypocrisy, and apt only to be classified as outright stupid. Displaying the grotesque arrogance, as they are demanding of others to abide by laws and conventions, whilst they are clearly violating them. How is it that a nation that is engaged in committing this monumental crime, by waging an unprovoked illegal war in clear violation the UN charter, are now demanding that Iraq should uphold the Geneva convention? Since the US/UK that has been parading the Iraqi POWS, and therefore Iraq is perfectly justified in responding in the same manner. Despite this the following points illustrates that it is the US is and has been violating the Geneva code.
a) As everyone is reminding the US, the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay held indefinitely without any charges is also a clear violation of Human rights values, which she constantly lectures the world.
b) The blatant execution of prisoners in Mazar-e-Sherif (Afghanistan), shot with hands tied behind their backs, and some were bludgeoned to death, by the criminal international organisation (CIA) of the US government.
c) The constant bombing of the drinking water installation plants in Iraq, coupled with the sanctions, causing the deaths of many children. Destroying facilities indispensable to the survival of the civilian population is prohibited by article 54 of the Geneva convention.
d) The US resorted to the orgy of needless mass execution when the Iraq soldiers were retreating to Basra in the first gulf war. It was clear the soldiers were not a threat to the US forces, a despicable barbaric act for the “liberators” of Iraq!
e) The US are threatening to prosecute the Iraqi’s for war crimes in the International Criminal Court, something that the US are refusing to sign up and apply it on themselves!
SOURCE: WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM.
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| Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9385] |
Mon, 24 March 2003 19:57  |
havocsnipe
Messages: 45
Registered: March 2003
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48 Hours has come and gone. "Shock and Awe" has not worked. At the rate Bush is spending money on missiles, that $80 billion he just asked Congress for will be spent in just over a week. Saddam is still in place.
This is Somalia, all over again. And the problem is that Bush KNEW this was going to happen. Last September's Iraq war games were a warning. The commanding officer assigned to play Saddam won every battle until he was ORDERED to do things to let the "Americans" win, whereupon he quit in disgust. Other top military experts predicted that Saddam would abandon the open deserts and lure the Americans into urban areas where Guerilla tactics would prove effective. And this is what has happened.
George W. Bush, who has never served in combat, has proven he is a terrible military commander. His ideas of what was going to happen in Iraq have proven false. Shock and Awe did not work. The Iraqi people did not welcome their "liberators" with open arms.
They are not surrendering in the numbers that were predicted, claimed, then retracted. America's sons and daughters are being captured and killed. And as they get into the cities, it will get worse.
For all the billions spent and lives lost, Bush has ownership of a lot of sand and little else. And America has lost the respect of the rest of the world in the process.
source http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
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| Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9411] |
Mon, 24 March 2003 23:37 |
Ren Sizzlefab
Messages: 77
Registered: March 2003
Location: Australia
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| K9Trooper |
How can a war be illegal if the UN can't come to a compromise? The UN is in violation of its charter by not abiding by Resolution 1441.
The UN does NOT write the laws for the US. As well as what you call international laws are in fact not laws but resolutions. And we all know that the UN does NOT know how to abide by its own resolutions.
United States of America is the country we live in. My country is not the
United Nations(notice the choice of color)
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I've read resolution 1441 and can't see where either Iraq has breached the conditions or the UN hasn't abided by it. But it was pretty difficult to read, so I may have missed it. Which items have not been complied with?
And I can understand your patriotism, I'm proud of my country too, but Liberty and Justice for All should apply for ALL, not just all Americans, which was what I see as one of the main aims of the UN. Saying you're just going to do what you want in the face of overwhelming opposition (which I'm not necessarily saying was the case in the war on Iraq) goes against everything Democracy stands for.
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| Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9412] |
Mon, 24 March 2003 23:57 |
spotelmo
Messages: 273
Registered: February 2003
Location: nebraska
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| Ren Sizzlefab |
| K9Trooper |
How can a war be illegal if the UN can't come to a compromise? The UN is in violation of its charter by not abiding by Resolution 1441.
The UN does NOT write the laws for the US. As well as what you call international laws are in fact not laws but resolutions. And we all know that the UN does NOT know how to abide by its own resolutions.
United States of America is the country we live in. My country is not the
United Nations(notice the choice of color)
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I've read resolution 1441 and can't see where either Iraq has breached the conditions or the UN hasn't abided by it. But it was pretty difficult to read, so I may have missed it. Which items have not been complied with?
And I can understand your patriotism, I'm proud of my country too, but Liberty and Justice for All should apply for ALL, not just all Americans, which was what I see as one of the main aims of the UN. Saying you're just going to do what you want in the face of overwhelming opposition (which I'm not necessarily saying was the case in the war on Iraq) goes against everything Democracy stands for.
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here are a few of the violations...
3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;
they did not declare the scuds they launched at us, the unmanned drones that were found, the aluminum tubing and magnets they acquired.
4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and or 12 below;
again they lied about the scud missles. blix has also stated that they are complying grudgingly not fully.
5. Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC's or the IAEA's choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter;
again, grudging access and they did not allow scientists to be interviewed outside iraq
13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations
this would be our authorization to go to war. problem is... definition of "serious consequences" to france and others, this means "we're going to talk and talk about it until the entire world is more mad at the us than they are at you"
you've seen what we mean by serious consequences here in the us.
keep in mind, the things i mentioned are the undisputed items, they do not include the things which the us says they have but are as of yet unproven. they also don't include the chemical weapons plant(not proven yet) which was found since the war began.
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| Re: Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9413] |
Tue, 25 March 2003 00:12 |
spotelmo
Messages: 273
Registered: February 2003
Location: nebraska
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| havocsnipe |
The reference to the Geneva Convention by the “All-Lies” has surpassed hypocrisy, and apt only to be classified as outright stupid. Displaying the grotesque arrogance, as they are demanding of others to abide by laws and conventions, whilst they are clearly violating them. How is it that a nation that is engaged in committing this monumental crime, by waging an unprovoked illegal war in clear violation the UN charter, are now demanding that Iraq should uphold the Geneva convention? Since the US/UK that has been parading the Iraqi POWS, and therefore Iraq is perfectly justified in responding in the same manner. Despite this the following points illustrates that it is the US is and has been violating the Geneva code.
a) As everyone is reminding the US, the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay held indefinitely without any charges is also a clear violation of Human rights values, which she constantly lectures the world.
b) The blatant execution of prisoners in Mazar-e-Sherif (Afghanistan), shot with hands tied behind their backs, and some were bludgeoned to death, by the criminal international organisation (CIA) of the US government.
c) The constant bombing of the drinking water installation plants in Iraq, coupled with the sanctions, causing the deaths of many children. Destroying facilities indispensable to the survival of the civilian population is prohibited by article 54 of the Geneva convention.
d) The US resorted to the orgy of needless mass execution when the Iraq soldiers were retreating to Basra in the first gulf war. It was clear the soldiers were not a threat to the US forces, a despicable barbaric act for the “liberators” of Iraq!
e) The US are threatening to prosecute the Iraqi’s for war crimes in the International Criminal Court, something that the US are refusing to sign up and apply it on themselves!
SOURCE: WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM.
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a)those in cuba have been visited by human rights advocates and have been reported to be being treated fantastically.
b)prisoners killed in afghanistan(6 of them if i remember correctly) is being investigated. there is no proof that any us serviceman or cia official was responsible for this since it was afghan authorities in charge of the prisoners.
c)the sanctions are un sanctions, not us sanctions. as for the drinking water facilities, i only know of 1 which was actually for purifying water, the others were chemical weapons plants. we have since given all the aid necessary under oil for food program to rebuild drinking water facilities.- side note here, there are currently billions of dollars in the bank of france which is money from oil sold by iraq for the oil for food program. if iraq is suffering so bad, why doesn't france release that money to spend on food/medicine
d) just like the iraqi soldiers surrendering now who are pretending to surrender and then opening fire when the us gets close? or the ones dressed in civilian clothes to fool the us into letting down their guard then attacking when we lower our weapons?
e) exactly, problem with that? tell it to someone who can do something about it. last i heard, russia hadn't signed up for it either. we will never allow someone else to arbitrarially(sp?) come to the us and grab our soldiers and put them in front of another court. when we find good reason for individual soldiers to be tried outside the us, we turn them over to the appropriate country otherwise, we handle it ourselves .
as for your source :rolleyes:
that is just a really stupid, conspiracy theory,living-in-my-my-mom's-basement-at 35, making-up-the-facts, look-i-spent-my-paper-route-money-on-a-computer,loser,can't-get-a-date, moron website.
it's like the movie with mel gibson if any of his theories ever are correct, he won't know which one because they are all so full of crap.
at least now we know where you get your news, i will now begin to feel sorry for you as i back away silently from most of your posts.
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| Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9461] |
Tue, 25 March 2003 09:51 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Duke of Nukes |
just because you haven't heard of a source doesn't mean it's not credible.
saying Anti-War people are anti-American goes against what America stands for. If your so damn patriotic...stop being a nationalist.
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You still aren't qualified to have a discussion on this matter. Your statements have no value here.
Deleted
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| Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9498] |
Tue, 25 March 2003 11:35 |
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NeoSaber
Messages: 336
Registered: February 2003
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| havocsnipe |
48 Hours has come and gone. "Shock and Awe" has not worked. At the rate Bush is spending money on missiles, that $80 billion he just asked Congress for will be spent in just over a week. Saddam is still in place.
This is Somalia, all over again. And the problem is that Bush KNEW this was going to happen. Last September's Iraq war games were a warning. The commanding officer assigned to play Saddam won every battle until he was ORDERED to do things to let the "Americans" win, whereupon he quit in disgust. Other top military experts predicted that Saddam would abandon the open deserts and lure the Americans into urban areas where Guerilla tactics would prove effective. And this is what has happened.
George W. Bush, who has never served in combat, has proven he is a terrible military commander. His ideas of what was going to happen in Iraq have proven false. Shock and Awe did not work. The Iraqi people did not welcome their "liberators" with open arms.
They are not surrendering in the numbers that were predicted, claimed, then retracted. America's sons and daughters are being captured and killed. And as they get into the cities, it will get worse.
For all the billions spent and lives lost, Bush has ownership of a lot of sand and little else. And America has lost the respect of the rest of the world in the process.
source http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
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Wow, it only took you two sentences to contradict yourself. How can you say 48 hours have passed and everything is a failure? Coalition forces have been making a lot of progress despite the guerilla tatics. Iraqi civilans are still waiting for Saddam to be overthrown before they do anything, except in Basra where the people are uprising against Saddam.
You are acting like this conflict has been over for months and history has declared it a failure. This has barely started and so far indications are its going well.
NeoSaber
Renegade Map Maker at CnC Source
Animator/Compiler/Level Editor/Object Rigger/Programmer for Red Alert: A Path Beyond
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| Hypocrisy and the Geneva Convention [message #9519] |
Tue, 25 March 2003 12:38 |
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K9Trooper
Messages: 821
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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HERE ARE 10 THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN VOICING AN OPINION ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE:
1) BETWEEN PRESIDENT BUSH AND SADDAM HUSSEIN ... HUSSEIN IS THE BAD GUY.
2) IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE UNITED NATIONS TO DO THE RIGHT THING KEEP THIS IN MIND, THEY HAVE LIBYA HEADING THE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND IRAQ HEADING THE GLOBAL DISARMAMENT COMMITTEE. DO YOUR OWN MATH HERE!
3) IF YOU USE GOOGLE SEARCH AND TYPE IN "FRENCH MILITARY VICTORIES", YOUR REPLY WILL BE "DID YOU MEAN FRENCH MILITARY DEFEATS?" (Use the "I feel lucky" button)
4) IF YOUR ONLY ANTI-WAR SLOGAN IS "NO WAR FOR OIL," SUE YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR ALLOWING YOU TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND ROBBING YOU OF THE EDUCATION YOU DESERVE.
5) SADDAM AND BIN LADEN WILL NOT SEEK UNITED NATIONS APPROVAL BEFORE THEY TRY TO KILL US.
6) DESPITE COMMON BELIEF, MARTIN SHEEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. HE JUST PLAYS ONE ON T.V.
7) EVEN IF YOU ARE ANTI-WAR, YOU ARE STILL AN "INFIDEL!" AND BIN LADEN WANTS YOU DEAD, TOO.
 IF YOU BELIEVE IN A "VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY" BUT NOT IN THE DANGER THAT HUSSEIN POSES, QUIT HANGING OUT WITH THE DELL COMPUTER DUDE!
9) WE ARE TRYING TO LIBERATE THE IRAQI PEOPLE.
10) WHETHER YOU ARE FOR MILITARY ACTION OR AGAINST IT, OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN OVERSEAS ARE FIGHTING FOR US TO DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT. WE ALL NEED TO SUPPORT THEM WITHOUT RESERVATION.
R.I.P. TreyD. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
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