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see that sick shit? [message #87131] Thu, 13 May 2004 08:12 Go to next message
EvoSnipe is currently offline  EvoSnipe
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anyone download the guy getting his head cut off? man that makes me wanna kill some towelheads
poor chap


"Sacred cows make the best hamburgers"
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see that sick shit? [message #87134] Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KIRBY098 is currently offline  KIRBY098
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For every one of us that they kill, we kill 9.

I think enough "towel heads" are dying as is.


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see that sick shit? [message #87180] Thu, 13 May 2004 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phoenix - Aeon is currently offline  Phoenix - Aeon
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Indeed, I think in between the Rangers, Para's, Delta Force, Seals, Royal Marine Commandoes, Teratorials, R.A.F, U.S.A.F, American and British Mech and Armour divisions and finally the S.A.S there's enough people being killed.
see that sick shit? [message #87219] Thu, 13 May 2004 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warranto is currently offline  warranto
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Besides, (not that this is in support of it, rather the reason they proclaim it for) it's retribution for the prisoner abuse certain soldiers have committed recently. I'd say retribution for the retribution will only cause further retribution.
see that sick shit? [message #87237] Thu, 13 May 2004 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nodbugger is currently offline  Nodbugger
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warranto

Besides, (not that this is in support of it, rather the reason they proclaim it for) it's retribution for the prisoner abuse certain soldiers have committed recently. I'd say retribution for the retribution will only cause further retribution.

I think it was just an excuse to to kill someone.

They really were not mad because in the middle east worse things happen every day. That is why no Arab nation has condemned what American soldiers did.


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see that sick shit? [message #87279] Thu, 13 May 2004 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SuperFlyingEngi is currently offline  SuperFlyingEngi
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This execution was quit despicable, but NOT unwarranted.

The Constitution defines thee law of the land in a way that includes any treaties we sign. We signed the Geneva Convention. Therefore, we do not torture people. We're supposed to be seen as the guiding light country that leads the world in condemning torture and looking out for fellow humans.

At least we were like that before this Abu Gharib hellhole came to light.

It should also be noted that sometime a while ago [Note: I'm just remembering this off the top of my head - I may not be perfectly precise, but the general jist is the same] Donald Rumsfeld and some other people from the Bush presidency were giving a press conference or something like that and got on the topic of terrorists. They said something like "We will deal with these terrorists in new ways to better secure our country", and then someone piped up "Will they be treated fairly under the Geneva Convention?" Then Rumsfeld says, "Well, the terrorists shouldn't expect treatment under the Geneva Convention."

Now, here, smart people go "Oh my god, we're going to be torturing people?"

However, there really are no terrorists in Iraq, so this may be a little off to the side. Although it does deal with overlooking the Geneva Convention.


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)

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see that sick shit? [message #87280] Thu, 13 May 2004 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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Nah, I don't buy that. It's not like they were peaceful people who never hurt anyone until a couple of our troops "abused" our prisoners.

I'm the bawss.
see that sick shit? [message #87291] Thu, 13 May 2004 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nodbugger is currently offline  Nodbugger
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There are also some fishy things.

Like one of the guys that supposedly did this used Bergs email address while attending flight school. I think maybe he double crossed them (why he was arrested by Iraqi police) so they killed him and used it as propaganda.

That is just a theory.


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see that sick shit? [message #87295] Thu, 13 May 2004 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SuperFlyingEngi is currently offline  SuperFlyingEngi
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Crimson: Hm...abused...

Aren't there, like, 25 killings being investigated at Abu Gharib right now? That place was a hellhole, no doubt about it. Besides, the Iraqis we were and are fighting are just like any other soldier: They're supporters of a side. They're not some special group because we're in Iraq. Thus, they should be treated like prisoners. And Arabs see this, and then kill someone, and while they are indeed sick freaks, they are responding to atrocities commited by the US.


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)

The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
see that sick shit? [message #87332] Thu, 13 May 2004 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warranto is currently offline  warranto
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Crimson

Nah, I don't buy that. It's not like they were peaceful people who never hurt anyone until a couple of our troops "abused" our prisoners.


True, but it does makes their "cause" most "just" if they have a "good" reason to take this kind of action.

"Look at what these treacherous Americans did! Now you see what they are really like! We only took this action in retribution for this! Help us fight off this evil Regime before they do the same to you!!!oneoneelvevin111!"

Stated like that, it puts them in a better light with those opposed to America.

Of course, just a disclaimer before I get people flaming me, I'm not in support of this, or believe the statement. However there will be people that do, and it's just an unfortunate turn of events considering the anti-American stance people seem to be concentrating on.
Re: see that sick shit? [message #87338] Thu, 13 May 2004 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
IRON FART
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EvoSnipe

anyone download the guy getting his head cut off? man that makes me wanna kill some towelheads
poor chap

That video was taken years ago, and it wasn't "towelheads" who did it. If you must know, they were actually Russian.

But still you are quick to bame the "towelheads."

I'm not sure who it was they killed, but I know it wasn't an American.

I'd try to find it, but it is rare, and hard to find, and you would have to search through a bunch of twisted or porn sites to find it.

EDIT: Nevermind I realised what you were talking about...My bad :S
Quote:


For every one of us that they kill, we kill 9.


And it looks like that for every 9 of them you kill, them seem to kill about 18...


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see that sick shit? [message #87350] Thu, 13 May 2004 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hydra is currently offline  Hydra
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SuperFlyingEngi

This execution was quit despicable, but NOT unwarranted.

"Oh, it was a terrible act, but it is our fault." :rolleyes: You'd rather blame America before the terrorists? Who was it who cut the guy's head off? A terrorist. Was it an American? No. So how is it our fault? "Oh, we made them mad because we were abusing their soldiers!" That was 6 sick individuals who stripped a bunch of prisoners naked and piled them on top of each other. It was abuse, but what's happening to those soldiers right now? They're being court-martialed. See, the difference here is that we actually punish those who do crimes and commit atrocities. Al-Jazeera wouldn't dare report the court-martialing of those soldiers since that might give Americans a good name.

Quote:

The Constitution defines thee law of the land in a way that includes any treaties we sign. We signed the Geneva Convention. Therefore, we do not torture people. We're supposed to be seen as the guiding light country that leads the world in condemning torture and looking out for fellow humans.

At least we were like that before this Abu Gharib hellhole came to light.

Let's see, has this happened anywhere else thus far? Have there been any other reports of Iraqi prisoner abuse? No, there haven't? Thank you.

I think it's nice how you just degraded the American troops in Iraq. Really, calling them a group of murderous torturers was really nice of you. :rolleyes:

Quote:

It should also be noted that sometime a while ago [Note: I'm just remembering this off the top of my head - I may not be perfectly precise, but the general jist is the same] Donald Rumsfeld and some other people from the Bush presidency were giving a press conference or something like that and got on the topic of terrorists. They said something like "We will deal with these terrorists in new ways to better secure our country", and then someone piped up "Will they be treated fairly under the Geneva Convention?" Then Rumsfeld says, "Well, the terrorists shouldn't expect treatment under the Geneva Convention."

Now, here, smart people go "Oh my god, we're going to be torturing people?"
Well why don't you help us all remember when he said that because I sure as hell don't remember him ever saying the prisoners would not get protection under the Geneva Convention.

Quote:

However, there really are no terrorists in Iraq, so this may be a little off to the side. Although it does deal with overlooking the Geneva Convention.
Oh, that's right, they're not terrorists, they're freedom fighters. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Besides, the Iraqis we were and are fighting are just like any other soldier: They're supporters of a side.
Well, Hamas is a group of people who support a particular side. Does that make them soldiers too?

Quote:

And Arabs see this, and then kill someone, and while they are indeed sick freaks, they are responding to atrocities commited by the US.
*points to Warranto's last post* that summed it up pretty well.

IRON-FART

And it looks like that for every 9 of them you kill, them seem to kill about 18...

What the hell are you talking about? Only about 700 American soldiers were killed! That was barely a statistic in the other major wars we've been in!! For every one soldier they kill, we kill about 100 more militants, and for every one successful bombing/attack they make on American forces, about 14 are prevented.

Pull your head out of your ass.


Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
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see that sick shit? [message #87363] Fri, 14 May 2004 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cpo64 is currently offline  Cpo64
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I would rather have my head cut off then beat and humiliated by my enemy.

-->
see that sick shit? [message #87369] Fri, 14 May 2004 00:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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Obviously you didn't watch the video. It wasn't a quick chop like a guillotine. Nick Berg KNEW what was happening and felt several cuts from the saw-like actions of the knife before the horrible act was finished.

I haven't seen the video either, don't need to, don't want to. But I do know what happened in it.


I'm the bawss.
see that sick shit? [message #87412] Fri, 14 May 2004 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nodbugger is currently offline  Nodbugger
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Ya it wasn't ver cool.

They had a bladed knife but sawed through him. Experts say he was alive long enough to see his own body.....


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see that sick shit? [message #87419] Fri, 14 May 2004 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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hydra1945

I think it's nice how you just degraded the American troops in Iraq. Really, calling them a group of murderous torturers was really nice of you. :rolleyes:


While I don't know you personally, many in your country (assuming you're American) have done the same thing to the French. Not all French people gave weapons to Iraq, but the bigotry seems to encompass everyone from the top government official to a newborn baby sitting in a cradle.

If you're going to complain about generalization, then you better justify the generalization that people in your country have been making for years.



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see that sick shit? [message #87427] Fri, 14 May 2004 05:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KIRBY098 is currently offline  KIRBY098
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Javaxcx

hydra1945

I think it's nice how you just degraded the American troops in Iraq. Really, calling them a group of murderous torturers was really nice of you. :rolleyes:


While I don't know you personally, many in your country (assuming you're American) have done the same thing to the French. Not all French people gave weapons to Iraq, but the bigotry seems to encompass everyone from the top government official to a newborn baby sitting in a cradle.

If you're going to complain about generalization, then you better justify the generalization that people in your country have been making for years.


I will concede your point, but does my government's over-generalizations justify yours? If America truly was imperialistic, and it's troops murderous thugs, Canada would be prime territory due to resources. I think we all know that American troops are usually good ambassadors when forward deployed, just as Canadian, Australian, and English troops are.


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see that sick shit? [message #87433] Fri, 14 May 2004 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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Oh yes, definately. "murderous torturers" was a generalization. Of course it didn't apply to every American soldier.

Besides, you wouldn't stand a chance against Canada, Kirby. Mounties are suprisingly resiliant to everything.



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see that sick shit? [message #87434] Fri, 14 May 2004 06:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KIRBY098 is currently offline  KIRBY098
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Javaxcx

Oh yes, definately. "murderous torturers" was a generalization. Of course it didn't apply to every American soldier.

Besides, you wouldn't stand a chance against Canada, Kirby. Mounties are suprisingly resiliant to everything.


Especially fashion.


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see that sick shit? [message #87441] Fri, 14 May 2004 07:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EvoSnipe is currently offline  EvoSnipe
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I dont feel a bit of pity for any of Osama's or Hussien's supporters, they are merely getting what they deserve in the end, and their religion is so radical, that you could never change their mind about us or our allies.
I consider the middle east the scum of the Earth, which needs to be weeded out as soon as possible, i understand many of the people are peace loving, however, they are easily manipulated and as soon as we give them soveriegnity on Iraq, in about 30 years a new dictator will come along in a time of crisis to alter the minds of the populus.
With the religion they have, they can never be truly democratic, truly free enterprise, for they will always think above these wonderful priveleges we are blessed with, for the sake of their insane beliefs.

Therefore, i conclude by saying most of the middle east should e exterminated, as well as the radical religions of the world
these things must happen before a perfect society can be attained


"Sacred cows make the best hamburgers"
-Mark Twain
see that sick shit? [message #87445] Fri, 14 May 2004 07:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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EvoSnipe

I consider the middle east the scum of the Earth, which needs to be weeded out as soon as possible, i understand many of the people are peace loving, however, they are easily manipulated and as soon as we give them soveriegnity on Iraq, in about 30 years a new dictator will come along in a time of crisis to alter the minds of the populus.


LOL, do you understand your own hypocrisy? In case you haven't, I've pointed it out for you.

Quote:

With the religion they have, they can never be truly democratic, truly free enterprise, for they will always think above these wonderful priveleges we are blessed with, for the sake of their insane beliefs.


Ah yes, the wonderful priveleges of the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer!

Quote:

Therefore, i conclude by saying most of the middle east should e exterminated, as well as the radical religions of the world
these things must happen before a perfect society can be attained


I'm going to assume you're Christian, and if that is true, than you're also guilty of having a "radical religion". Remember the Crusades? In fact, any war sparked out of Christian morals is radical.

So let me try and get this straight: You want to exterminate "most" of the middle east (that would probably include civilians too, seeing how they occupy alot more volume than terrorists) because you find their religion to be radical? Silly bigot.

And Kirby: Touche.



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see that sick shit? [message #87520] Fri, 14 May 2004 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cpo64 is currently offline  Cpo64
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Crimson

Obviously you didn't watch the video. It wasn't a quick chop like a guillotine. Nick Berg KNEW what was happening and felt several cuts from the saw-like actions of the knife before the horrible act was finished.

I haven't seen the video either, don't need to, don't want to. But I do know what happened in it.


You are incorrect, I did watch the movie, and I stand by my statment.


-->
see that sick shit? [message #87531] Fri, 14 May 2004 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nodbugger is currently offline  Nodbugger
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Cpo64

Crimson

Obviously you didn't watch the video. It wasn't a quick chop like a guillotine. Nick Berg KNEW what was happening and felt several cuts from the saw-like actions of the knife before the horrible act was finished.

I haven't seen the video either, don't need to, don't want to. But I do know what happened in it.


You are incorrect, I did watch the movie, and I stand by my statment.



I saw the movie also. And she described it pretty well.

They kicked him over and sawed his head of with a large knife. Took them a but to get through the spinal cord. and he lived long enough to see his head less body.


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see that sick shit? [message #87538] Fri, 14 May 2004 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SuperFlyingEngi is currently offline  SuperFlyingEngi
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hydra1945

"Oh, it was a terrible act, but it is our fault." You'd rather blame America before the terrorists? Who was it who cut the guy's head off? A terrorist. Was it an American? No. So how is it our fault? "Oh, we made them mad because we were abusing their soldiers!" That was 6 sick individuals who stripped a bunch of prisoners naked and piled them on top of each other. It was abuse, but what's happening to those soldiers right now? They're being court-martialed. See, the difference here is that we actually punish those who do crimes and commit atrocities. Al-Jazeera wouldn't dare report the court-martialing of those soldiers since that might give Americans a good name.



I'm blaming America....that's such a single-minded moronic statement. Some of our soldiers (more than 6, but details are still coming out) abused some of their soldiers. And now Muslim extremists have a US Soldier executed. We're no longer a nation that can say we denounce this despicable act if we ourselves have been carrying it out in a prison because of lack of command or whatever. Also, the FBI will no longer allow their agents to be present during CIA interrogations of supposed terrorists, because the CIA has gotten so rough the defense in a case can just say the FBI agent was present during torture and the case is done.

hydra1945

I think it's nice how you just degraded the American troops in Iraq. Really, calling them a group of murderous torturers was really nice of you.


Again, this is another moronic statement. I was referring to ABU GHARIB, NOT ALL OF OUR SOLDIERS YA MORON! Actually think before you make such steep claims. I reference again to CIA interrogations here, although those people don't kill anyone.

hydra1945

Oh, that's right, they're not terrorists, they're freedom fighters.


You do know that al Qaeda doesn't truly operate in Iraq, right? al Qaeda is composed of holy men, and some major predisposition of the ruling power in Iraq makes them not feel obligated to go there.

hydra1945

Well, Hamas is a group of people who support a particular side. Does that make them soldiers too?


Well, if Hamas sends actual soldiers to attack us, and we capture them and put them in prisons, we don't get a special right to torture them so we can skip over the law of the land.

...And we've lost at least 900 soldiers in Iraq so far.

EvoSnipe:

I doubt you have any comprehension of Middle Eastern politics. Here's a hint: It is NOTHING like the way we do things in the west.


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)

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see that sick shit? [message #88081] Mon, 17 May 2004 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
EvoSnipe is currently offline  EvoSnipe
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Superflyingengi:And now Muslim extremists have a US Soldier executed.

uhhhh dude, it wasnt a us soilder, it was a contractor that was supposed to help iraq rebuild, shows you what animals they are

perhaps its you that doesnt comprehend the subject, maybe you should do your homework
Laughing


"Sacred cows make the best hamburgers"
-Mark Twain
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