| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #56413] |
Sun, 30 November 2003 16:33   |
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OnfireUK
Messages: 144
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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| warranto |
| rm5248 |
you should probably make it so that it doesn't work on unladderd games. because most cheats, i belive, only work in unladderd games. that would be very stupid if you kicked somebody from an unladderd game if the cheat does not give them any help on ladder points. and wasnt the point of unladderd games to make it so that you can cheat? or just for practice?
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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and will this just be for the servers that download renguard, or will it be for all servers wether they want it or not?
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This has been answered already. Regardless, no it won't be manditory. However, if a server is running renguard you'll need it as well in order to play on it.
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hmmm i was thinking about this...
Firsty , If u need renguard to play on the server, then that means u cant get in without it :
I assume u just cant join, i.e. join button doesnt come up ?
Or do u get kicked if u dont have it ?
Secondly, what kind of CHEATER wud get renguard and have cheats ON thats just F**cking stupid....
thanks..
Fire
Moderator @ Dethserv2: Moonlightshakers
WOL Nick : PHxOnfire
"Oh mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe?" - Adam Weishaupt
"Sapere Aude- Dare to be wise"
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #57254] |
Tue, 09 December 2003 17:00 |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Administrator/General |
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The client knows what file is bad and informs the player..
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danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #57785] |
Sun, 14 December 2003 03:55 |
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General Havoc
Messages: 1564
Registered: February 2003
Location: Birmingham, England, Unit...
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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1) What happens if you join a RenGuard enables server and you don't have the client?
2) Do all of te Renegade files have the same integraty in different language version of Renegade?
Visit my website at http://renhelp.laeubi-soft.de powered by laeubi.de
"SHUT UP AND MOD" - Dante
"ACK is the Simon Cowell of modding" - Ultron10
Scripts.dll Debugger, Map Scripter and Tutorial writer
Computer Science Bsc
Aston University in Birmingham, UK
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #57810] |
Sun, 14 December 2003 08:46 |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Administrator/General |
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| Adavanze |
Im guessing that you will need the client to join the server, or version mismatch. Problems with this is it might open up another sub net like objects.ddb mods do when you put them in your data folder before logging into WOL.
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If you do not have the RenGuard Client, and you join a RenGuard Enabled Server, you will be paged (WOL) or get a public host message (GSA) with the url for RenGuard and you will be kicked shortly afterwards.
There is no version mismatch.
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danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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| what accountability? [message #58360] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 01:11 |
spotelmo
Messages: 273
Registered: February 2003
Location: nebraska
Karma: 0
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what sort of accountability/assurances are you offering that when they download renguard they are not putting malicious code on their computers?
i've known the people associated with this project for a long time and can say i trust them as much as possible considering i've never actually met them face to face, but, this is still client side/server side app which if done by unscrupulous people can permanently damage someone's computer or transmit information to the 'master server' which the owner does not want transmitted.
you've already stated that things like serial numbers are transmitted to the server. you say it's encrypted before transmit and i believe you, but what assurances do people have that it is not de-encrypted on the other end or that other info can't/won't be sent?
i assume you are not going to put your source code out there for everyone to see(that would be stupid on your part).
the easy answer on your part would of course be to say "if you don't trust us, screw you don't install and then see how many good games you can get into"
i of course am as excited as most other people about this app and applaud the work you have all done. perhaps it's just that i'm used to some accountability being required anytime something is created that can affect so many people.
perhaps if you could offer some sort of 'real' contact point? i.e. a phone number or address or p.o box or a real name or two. just something to assure people that they are not installing something on their computers that transmits data to a third party which was made by a group of anonymous people on the web.
i wouldn't want to set you guys up for a bunch of unwanted spam or even real threats to your safety, just maybe if you could think about what i've said and come up with something acceptable to you all.
i realize none of you are making any money off this but it is still a good business practice to provide aome accountability and recourse to your 'customers'.
thanks and again, great work!
spot
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| Re: what accountability? [message #58366] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 05:23 |
Scorpio9a
Messages: 60
Registered: March 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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| spotelmo |
what sort of accountability/assurances are you offering that when they download renguard they are not putting malicious code on their computers?
i've known the people associated with this project for a long time and can say i trust them as much as possible considering i've never actually met them face to face, but, this is still client side/server side app which if done by unscrupulous people can permanently damage someone's computer or transmit information to the 'master server' which the owner does not want transmitted.
you've already stated that things like serial numbers are transmitted to the server. you say it's encrypted before transmit and i believe you, but what assurances do people have that it is not de-encrypted on the other end or that other info can't/won't be sent?
i assume you are not going to put your source code out there for everyone to see(that would be stupid on your part).
the easy answer on your part would of course be to say "if you don't trust us, screw you don't install and then see how many good games you can get into"
i of course am as excited as most other people about this app and applaud the work you have all done. perhaps it's just that i'm used to some accountability being required anytime something is created that can affect so many people.
perhaps if you could offer some sort of 'real' contact point? i.e. a phone number or address or p.o box or a real name or two. just something to assure people that they are not installing something on their computers that transmits data to a third party which was made by a group of anonymous people on the web.
i wouldn't want to set you guys up for a bunch of unwanted spam or even real threats to your safety, just maybe if you could think about what i've said and come up with something acceptable to you all.
i realize none of you are making any money off this but it is still a good business practice to provide aome accountability and recourse to your 'customers'.
thanks and again, great work!
spot
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The serial encryption is only a 1 way encryption, meaning we can't decrypt it, it isn't even possible to do that at all for security reasons, and besides
give me a good reason why we would want to get the serial keys from you?
The serial key is used to identify a person, nothing more.
We are not transmitting passwords and such to the RenGuard server, only Renegade related info is sent to the renguard server.
The source code of RenGuard will not be available, like you said, that would be pretty stupid.
Every version of RenGuard will be heavly tested before we release it to make sure nothing critical can happen to your pc by RenGuard.
I don't know about that real contact thing, that would be something that an other person on the team could answer, but by giving our real name's shouldn't help much, besides almost everyone that know's us knows our real name's.
-Scorpio9a
Nothing is impossible, somethings just requires alot of time.
"Impossible" things done so far together with SK:
RenRem Protocol - Custom Checksum/Encryption
HL2 FileSystem replacement
C&C95 Multiplayer under XP with up to 4 players
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| Re: what accountability? [message #58371] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 07:29 |
spotelmo
Messages: 273
Registered: February 2003
Location: nebraska
Karma: 0
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| Scorpio9a |
| spotelmo |
what sort of accountability/assurances are you offering that when they download renguard they are not putting malicious code on their computers?
i've known the people associated with this project for a long time and can say i trust them as much as possible considering i've never actually met them face to face, but, this is still client side/server side app which if done by unscrupulous people can permanently damage someone's computer or transmit information to the 'master server' which the owner does not want transmitted.
you've already stated that things like serial numbers are transmitted to the server. you say it's encrypted before transmit and i believe you, but what assurances do people have that it is not de-encrypted on the other end or that other info can't/won't be sent?
i assume you are not going to put your source code out there for everyone to see(that would be stupid on your part).
the easy answer on your part would of course be to say "if you don't trust us, screw you don't install and then see how many good games you can get into"
i of course am as excited as most other people about this app and applaud the work you have all done. perhaps it's just that i'm used to some accountability being required anytime something is created that can affect so many people.
perhaps if you could offer some sort of 'real' contact point? i.e. a phone number or address or p.o box or a real name or two. just something to assure people that they are not installing something on their computers that transmits data to a third party which was made by a group of anonymous people on the web.
i wouldn't want to set you guys up for a bunch of unwanted spam or even real threats to your safety, just maybe if you could think about what i've said and come up with something acceptable to you all.
i realize none of you are making any money off this but it is still a good business practice to provide aome accountability and recourse to your 'customers'.
thanks and again, great work!
spot
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The serial encryption is only a 1 way encryption, meaning we can't decrypt it, it isn't even possible to do that at all for security reasons, and besides
give me a good reason why we would want to get the serial keys from you?
The serial key is used to identify a person, nothing more.
We are not transmitting passwords and such to the RenGuard server, only Renegade related info is sent to the renguard server.
The source code of RenGuard will not be available, like you said, that would be pretty stupid.
Every version of RenGuard will be heavly tested before we release it to make sure nothing critical can happen to your pc by RenGuard.
I don't know about that real contact thing, that would be something that an other person on the team could answer, but by giving our real name's shouldn't help much, besides almost everyone that know's us knows our real name's.
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if you created the algorythm that encrypted it, then yes you can decrypt it.
as for heavily testing, i'm sure you would test it and i trust that the people named would not try anything funny. but, what about the average player who doesn't know any of you? how does he know that you or someone on your team isn't some wse reject out to destroy the cyber world?
as for what is being transmitted, how would we know(without some intensive detective work which most players wouldn't know how to do) that what you say you are transmitting is what you are actually transmitting?
i, for one, do know many of your real names. but, many players may not know anything except that they got a pop up saying they need something called renguard to play on any good servers.
do you get what i'm getting at?
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #58374] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 09:29 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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There are pre-made algorithms out there that can encrypt one-way. An example is MD5. The only way to go backwards is brute force... and frankly I think we'd all rather spend $9 for a new game if we needed a serial.
I'm the bawss.
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #58376] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 09:51 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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As Crimson said, there are many one-way crypts that can be done on data. One-way meaning the data is encrypted and it is IMPOSSIBLE to decrypt it. This is what RG will do with your serial before it is sent anywhere. We then get a scrambled version of your serial that looks nothing like your real one, but that scrambled version can still be used to do comparisons against ones in a banlist etc.
Please read a book or google search on Cryptography and one-way algorithmns before you call us liars. We really have no interest in stealing your $9 serial number, I promise.
As for the whole "oh no im installing an application on my computer that *could* do bad things etc etc etc", umm its that way with ANY application. Every windows update you install, everything you download from the internet, etc. The question is do you trust the source, and are they accountable for any problems. While we cannot make you trust us, we certainly promise that RG is both secure and does not steal anything from you. While the system itself is fairly complex, individual components of the system are relatively simple. There is no chance of something going "wrong" and accidentally deleting your hard disk or anything like that.
I suggest that you take the normal precautions when installing RG that you would with anything you download from the internet, but speculating on the bad things that any program you install could do, will only make you worry yourself to death 
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #58382] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 10:22 |
spotelmo
Messages: 273
Registered: February 2003
Location: nebraska
Karma: 0
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| Blazer |
As Crimson said, there are many one-way crypts that can be done on data. One-way meaning the data is encrypted and it is IMPOSSIBLE to decrypt it. This is what RG will do with your serial before it is sent anywhere. We then get a scrambled version of your serial that looks nothing like your real one, but that scrambled version can still be used to do comparisons against ones in a banlist etc.
Please read a book or google search on Cryptography and one-way algorithmns before you call us liars. We really have no interest in stealing your $9 serial number, I promise.
As for the whole "oh no im installing an application on my computer that *could* do bad things etc etc etc", umm its that way with ANY application. Every windows update you install, everything you download from the internet, etc. The question is do you trust the source, and are they accountable for any problems. While we cannot make you trust us, we certainly promise that RG is both secure and does not steal anything from you. While the system itself is fairly complex, individual components of the system are relatively simple. There is no chance of something going "wrong" and accidentally deleting your hard disk or anything like that.
I suggest that you take the normal precautions when installing RG that you would with anything you download from the internet, but speculating on the bad things that any program you install could do, will only make you worry yourself to death
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first, i never called you a liar. second, i didn't know that you guys weren't setting up the encryption yourselves.
as for the things i download from the internet, i rarely download anything unless i know the source and how to seek recourse from that source if something goes wrong i.e. reputable businesses with published contact points.
i'm also not worried about anything going 'wrong' accidentally. i am simply stating that many people(including me) are putting their trust in a group of people they know only over the net if at all.
as i said before, i trust those i've been told about who are working on this but, i think it would be a good idea for you guys to offer some sort of real contact point for the possibly hundreds of people who will be downloading your product simply because a server message told them they have to.
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #58411] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 15:16 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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RenGuard.com is registered in my legal name and address. I'm willing to stand behind the work of these guys.
I'm the bawss.
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #58412] |
Fri, 19 December 2003 15:25 |
Ninjatime
Messages: 4
Registered: December 2003
Karma: 0
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first off i think this is gonna be the greatest thing to come to rene. just cuz cheats r killing renegade. second i was wondering if timers will count as a cheats c4/beacon timers?
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #58459] |
Sat, 20 December 2003 00:07 |
spotelmo
Messages: 273
Registered: February 2003
Location: nebraska
Karma: 0
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| Crimson |
RenGuard.com is registered in my legal name and address. I'm willing to stand behind the work of these guys.
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thanks, that's exactly the type of accountability i was talking about.
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #59965] |
Wed, 31 December 2003 15:51 |
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ghostSWT
Messages: 262
Registered: December 2003
Karma: 0
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i personaly don't know any of you creators of RenGuard client, what would be stoping you from make a SubSeven like ad on to it? and screwing with ppl's comps/files....
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| RenGuard Logical Diagram [message #59992] |
Wed, 31 December 2003 17:31 |
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ghostSWT
Messages: 262
Registered: December 2003
Karma: 0
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now that i think of it i do dl some ******.exe files with out thinking twice about it and runing them (as long as my firewall/virus scaner don't bitch out them). so you are 100% right.
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