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Question [message #58095] Tue, 16 December 2003 13:51 Go to next message
snipesimo is currently offline  snipesimo
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Colonel
Sorry if this has been asked before but oh well. What is being done about clickbots?
Question [message #58153] Tue, 16 December 2003 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
IRON FART
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Registered: September 2003
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General (1 Star)
Who uses clickbots?
They are useless.


http://www.baclan.org/albums/album05/dasmodell.jpg
Quote:


Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window

Question [message #58172] Wed, 17 December 2003 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majiin Vegeta is currently offline  Majiin Vegeta
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General (2 Stars)
old ones are useless.. whos to say newer ones are not better..

ive seen people with "i never miss accuracy" before.. the second i jump round corners.. its crazy O_o
Question [message #58177] Wed, 17 December 2003 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sniper12345 is currently offline  sniper12345
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Colonel

Er....what are clickbots?

WOL: megapunk0

http://images.listen-to.com/png.php/4g/sniper12345
Question [message #58184] Wed, 17 December 2003 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
longbow is currently offline  longbow
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If you don't know, it's best it stays that way.
Question [message #58217] Wed, 17 December 2003 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snipesimo is currently offline  snipesimo
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Colonel
anyone?
Question [message #58252] Wed, 17 December 2003 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blazer is currently offline  Blazer
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General

Clickbots rely on skinning the characters heads a special color. By default RG does not disallow skins, but it does have an option to set "pure mode" which disallows even skins (for tournaments and the like). It will be up the the server admin to enable this or not.
Question [message #58260] Wed, 17 December 2003 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
npsmith82 is currently offline  npsmith82
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Colonel
Blazer

Clickbots rely on skinning the characters heads a special color.
That's not entirely true. There's other ways to determine if an enemy is in the crosshair...


WOL: npsmith82

For RenAutoComplete, RenSkirmish, RenBuddyList and RenWOLstatus please visit (IE) TheCodeSmith.com
Question [message #58274] Thu, 18 December 2003 01:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blazer is currently offline  Blazer
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Yeah the dot in the middle turns red. Theres not much that can be done about that sort of thing, except for scanning memory for know clickbot code. In my testing none of the clickbots worked well enough to pose much of a threat except in sniping games against nonmoving targets.
Question [message #58292] Thu, 18 December 2003 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snipesimo is currently offline  snipesimo
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Colonel
I know they aren't very effective, but I was just curious if anything was being done. Because every other cheat I encountered I found a logical way for RG to stop it, but I drew a blank for clickbots.
Question [message #58453] Fri, 19 December 2003 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eh4canada is currently offline  eh4canada
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heres a question:

whats RG gonna do when it finds that someone is using a file it doesnt like.....im a little worried ab00t it not liking the bright sniper skins that most of the HT members and mods use on our servers to spot snipers easier (its a no sniper server), what happens when i forget to take these files out? (happens once in a whil ewhen i play on other servers) will RG ban me or report my ip or something like that just for making an honest mistake?


WOL: HTCanada
Question [message #58455] Fri, 19 December 2003 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kopaka649 is currently offline  kopaka649
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Commander
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to join the game, that's all.
Question [message #58499] Sat, 20 December 2003 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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Yeah, it will take a LOT to be banned from RenGuard servers, and only RenGuard staff will be able to do it. If RenGuard has any problems with your files, you'll just be kicked. I believe you'll also be auto-allowed so you can remove the offending files and get back in.

I'm the bawss.
Question [message #58528] Sat, 20 December 2003 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
IRON FART
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Quote:


Yeah, it will take a LOT to be banned from RenGuard servers, and only RenGuard staff will be able to do it.


I don't think only allowing RenGuard staff to place a global is fair in any situation. That player, although stupid enough not to catch the hint of not cheating the first time, will not be able to play on any renguard servers in WOL or GSA. And thats a bit too far, and unneccesary. Especially seeing as a player with cheats won't be able to join an RG server, there is no need to ban.

I'm sure many would disagree with having a select few having power to ban globally.


http://www.baclan.org/albums/album05/dasmodell.jpg
Quote:


Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window

Question [message #58536] Sat, 20 December 2003 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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It's their program, not yours, if you disagree with how it works there is always the option of not using it.
Question [message #58538] Sat, 20 December 2003 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
npsmith82 is currently offline  npsmith82
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Colonel
It would be easy to have a button in the RenGuard client, that will move ALL skins from the Data dir, temporarily into a subdir.

WOL: npsmith82

For RenAutoComplete, RenSkirmish, RenBuddyList and RenWOLstatus please visit (IE) TheCodeSmith.com
Question [message #58553] Sun, 21 December 2003 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cpo64 is currently offline  Cpo64
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IRON-FART

Quote:


Yeah, it will take a LOT to be banned from RenGuard servers, and only RenGuard staff will be able to do it.


I don't think only allowing RenGuard staff to place a global is fair in any situation. That player, although stupid enough not to catch the hint of not cheating the first time, will not be able to play on any renguard servers in WOL or GSA. And thats a bit too far, and unneccesary. Especially seeing as a player with cheats won't be able to join an RG server, there is no need to ban.

I'm sure many would disagree with having a select few having power to ban globally.


I would think "a LOT" means something along the lines of hacking the RG client etc...


-->
Question [message #58569] Sun, 21 December 2003 04:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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IRON-FART

Quote:


Yeah, it will take a LOT to be banned from RenGuard servers, and only RenGuard staff will be able to do it.


I don't think only allowing RenGuard staff to place a global is fair in any situation. That player, although stupid enough not to catch the hint of not cheating the first time, will not be able to play on any renguard servers in WOL or GSA. And thats a bit too far, and unneccesary. Especially seeing as a player with cheats won't be able to join an RG server, there is no need to ban.

I'm sure many would disagree with having a select few having power to ban globally.


ROFL LMAO OMG *catches breath*

OK, once again, I said it would take a lot. I didn't say what it would take a lot *OF*. Your reply implies you think one time being caught with cheats = global ban. Well, you couldn't be more wrong.

Also, let's look at all the systems that have "a select few [with] power to ban globally"...

n00bstories IRC, a trusted few can ban you from the network...
Any state/country/entity with a police force, omg "a select few" ie. police, judge, jury, can ban you from the state/country/entity by sending you to jail...

Need I go on, really? If we created the RenGuard network, then we can determine who can and can't use said network. It's our right.

It's also the right of a server owner to participate in this. As a server owner, it's within your rights to determine the rules of your server, who can play in your server, and who's banned. If I'm paying for my bandwidth and I don't want you using it, it's well within my rights to say you can't use it. Now, if a server owner says that they only want RenGuard-verified players in their servers, that's their right.

What I want to know is WHY every time we tell you the slightest bit about how RenGuard works, someone has to jump on our asses. Get over it. We're not here to screw you all over and control you for fuck's sake. It's just a game. We just want the fucking cheating assholes out of our servers. It's quite simple. We spend several hours a day talking about RenGuard and we're pretty sure we're doing this the best we can given what we have to work with.

Now please, quit nitpicking.


I'm the bawss.
Question [message #58591] Sun, 21 December 2003 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spotelmo is currently offline  spotelmo
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npsmith82

It would be easy to have a button in the RenGuard client, that will move ALL skins from the Data dir, temporarily into a subdir.


you really want this app to be powerful enough to move files around on your computer?

i prefer it's stated purpose of validating the game to keep cheaters from ruining the experience for us all.
Question [message #58631] Sun, 21 December 2003 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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ADMINISTRATOR
I was going to suggest that to the team, npsmith... Like, have links to "load pure mode" = no skins, etc... then you could even use it to load/unload fun stuff like the Matrix conversion. Smile Like, use it to save your own configurations of custom files and name them.

I'm the bawss.
Question [message #58704] Sun, 21 December 2003 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jelly is currently offline  Jelly
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I am an avid DoD player which uses the half life engine. Now I suppose with the right programming you can make an engine aim which alters no files at all. Here is the definition

Engine-Aim and XQZ Style are similar in a lot of ways. Engine-Aim hacks usually “hook” into the Half-Life game engine, like a positive virus. It doesn’t alter any of the gaming files usually, but instead it modifies the memory in your RAM Half-Life runs on. From there the hack has information about the current game you are in, including the location of an opponent’s head. The hack uses this information to aim for your, hence they name Engine-Aim, using actual game data to aim for the cheater. This style of Aimbot is very dynamic and customizable. The hack can watch for players anywhere around the cheater, including right behind the cheater, turn 180 degrees and kill the enemy, or only aim at players close to their crosshairs, to help lower suspicion about the cheater’s hacking.

This and XQZ style can both have built in wallhacks which as us modders know is a very simple thing to do. Do you think Renguard can stop something such as this since MD5 checksums and so forth will not work
Question [message #58710] Sun, 21 December 2003 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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You're so clueless it isn't even funny.

Wallhacks aren't made by altering the memory in Renegade. They're made by altering W3D files.
Question [message #58720] Sun, 21 December 2003 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jelly is currently offline  Jelly
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Now your a dumbass ACK you don't even know how the wallhacks for renegade are made and your supposed to be some big mapper lmao I laugh in your face.
Question [message #58725] Sun, 21 December 2003 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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I do know how they're made, you fucking idiot! You think with all the people I know, and all the time I've spent working with this game, that I wouldn't know that editing a W3D terrain file with a certain editing program makes meshes disappear, thus allowing you to kill people through walls?
Question [message #58726] Sun, 21 December 2003 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Blazer is currently offline  Blazer
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General

Jelly

This and XQZ style can both have built in wallhacks which as us modders know is a very simple thing to do. Do you think Renguard can stop something such as this since MD5 checksums and so forth will not work


The current wallhacks in use employ modified w3d's of the levels. There is also a "transparent wall hack" which turns all the textures to alpha blend, which doesnt allow you to shoot through them, but does allow you to see through everything. RenGuard will block any w3d mods to stop these kinds of hacks. As far as the hacks you mentioned, if you know anything about CS/Halflife hacks in general (and it sounds like you do), then you should know it is exponentially easier to hook into the HL engine than Renegade. Nothing is impossible to do of course, but to make an auto aimbot for Renegade that functioned as well as the CS ones do, would take more effort than I believe anyone is willing to expend. And, if any obvious cheats come up once RenGuard is out, we will be here to modify it to stop it, meanwhile the global ban list will also keep cheaters from ruining our games.

Note to everyone, please don't flame Jelly, he brings up a valid point, and I am happy to answer any questions about RG and discuss possible exploits.
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