Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50169] |
Wed, 01 October 2003 16:33   |
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U927
Messages: 709
Registered: February 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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This will be a long post. You have been warned.
I believe that universes parallel to this one do exist. There is an infinite amount of universes, all with different timelines. If it becomes possible, I think wormholes could be made to other universes by the means of time travel.
Think of it this way. In our universe, the timeline cannot be altered, or else there would be a paradox and time will be caught in an endless loop. This loop can be easily explained in the Grandfather Paradox, which states that if you travel back in time to kill your grandfather, you would have never lived, so you would have never killed him. So the only way you can alter the past is to travel to a totally different universe which has the timeline you want to happen applied to it.
To the common person traveling through "time", it might seem that you really can alter the past to see what happens in the fiture, but that isn't really the case. All that happens is you get sent to a totally different universe that changes from your own at the exact point where you change it. Now, why isn't this possible in your own universe? Because the time in your universe is unchangable. No matter how hard you try, you cannot change the events in the past, since it would destroy the purpose you went to travel in the first place, and you would not have traveled, and so the paradox begins. So, yes, I believe other infinite universes exist, and I do believe that eventually we will be able to enter different universes.
Wow my fingers ache. Send in your speculations. I'll respond to them as soon as I can.  
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle
8-Bit Theatre. The power of evil compels you!
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50205] |
Wed, 01 October 2003 21:46 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| Umbral_DelaFlare |
This will be a long post. You have been warned.
...Wow my fingers ache. Send in your speculations. I'll respond to them as soon as I can.
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Didn't you take that from "The Time Machine"? He built the time machine because his fiancee died and he wanted to go back and stop it from happening... but she was destined to die and he realized that no matter what he did, every time he went back, he'd watch her die, one way or another.
Here's my theory... it's not a belief, just a "what if".
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You never die. Not to you. Any decision you make, conscious or not, could cause you to die. If you do die, time splits to two dimensions. You, your consciousness, follows the one where you live, while your friends, family... in that timeline, grieve your death and time goes on without you. This happens an infinite amount of times for every person. It boggles the mind. In your own mind and consciousness, you live to be some age then you start over.
I'm the bawss.
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50206] |
Wed, 01 October 2003 22:00 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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I'd love if we understood the nature of the universe, but lets face it. There are many many areas of our own planet (the ocean depths, mountains, etc) that man has never stepped foot on or knows what is there. Species yet undiscovered, and we don't even understand how our own brains work. I think we as a race are not yet ready to go exploring the universe, other dimensions, etc. Sure we all watch star trek* and think thats how it is and it all seems possible...but the sad truth is we can't barely even break orbit of our planet with a projectile using thousands of pounds of chemical propellant, much less create warp fields and all the stuff that would be required to explore space.
The future holds much mystery...I hope to be around to see some of it unlocked.
* By "watch" I mean have seen it, heard of it, whatever...if you reply and say OMG I DONT WATCH ST I will just slap you silly.
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50213] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 04:27 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Blazer |
...we can barely even break orbit of our planet with a projectile using thousands of pounds of chemical propellant.
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As far as that goes, it appears to me that we're going about it the wrong way...
Just step back and look at it for a second. We're here, and we want to get up there. Doesn't mass packing fuel so we can physically force an object up and out of the atmosphere seem like the 'hard way'?
As an example, in the 1500s, man wanted to get across the Atlantic. What did we do? We built ships that physically pushed their way through the water and made it across the ocean in a few months time. What do we do (for the most part) now? Take a plane and just go over the ocean in a few hours or days time.
But hey, I'm not claiming to know a better way to travel in space, I'm just saying that if a few minds greater than mine sat down and thought about it for awhile, they would come up with something eventually. And I'm sure they will...eventually.
| John Shaft Jr. |
Now how did I know Taximes was going to answer this first. I said it was going to be Taximes or Infinit.
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Well, I'm glad to have the board stigmata of "loony nut who replies to all the weird space/time threads"
Seriously, though, I do love trying to wrap my mind around things like this 
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50218] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 05:49 |
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Scythar
Messages: 580
Registered: February 2003
Location: Finland
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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To quote myself:
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We don't have destiny. Every instant in our everyday lives leads to an infinite amount of "paths" which we continue to live. It might be possible to go back in time, but if you change something there (which is inevitable) then that time takes another, completely new, path, which you can only experience by living that same time. In the time where you came from, everything is normal, and your actions in the past have changed nothing.
Here is something I drew with Paint....(lol)
http://www.n00bstories.com/image.view.php?id=1077728031
Every path will lead to infinite number of paths, which will again lead to infinite number of paths and so on. If you go back in time, you go back in that tree-like structure as in the image....but when you change something in the past you're in, it takes a new route from the spot you're in, but all the other routes remain the same.
Take the picture for example. If you go from spot 1 to spot 2, you just create another timeline, and ONLY that timeline has been modified by your presence. Note that also that timeline spreads, and your actions will affect all the timelines spreading from it, but you will not change the actual time you were originally in...
Phew, so complicated to explain, but that's my 20 cents.....
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We were discussing about traveling in time there, but it explains my beliefs of multiverse too.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50225] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 09:35 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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| Taximes |
| Blazer |
...we can barely even break orbit of our planet with a projectile using thousands of pounds of chemical propellant.
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As far as that goes, it appears to me that we're going about it the wrong way...
But hey, I'm not claiming to know a better way to travel in space, I'm just saying that if a few minds greater than mine sat down and thought about it for awhile, they would come up with something eventually. And I'm sure they will...eventually.
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Yep...I don't see it happening though unless we can figure out a way to defeat that beast known as gravity 
http://www.renevo.com | 
http://strike-team.net/forums/ | XWIS Forums
http://www.n00bstories.com | Crimson is the 0wnage, and I Love her!
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50226] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 09:48 |
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EnderGate
Messages: 97
Registered: August 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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Intriguing, but let us look at the facts…
| Albert Einstein |
If one could just go fast enough, one could arrive at a destination BEFORE one left.
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The theory of relativity has been proven. The faster an object’s velocity the slower time moves for that object. The problem for us is that mass increases as velocity does (mass and velocity are directly related). As well, the larger the mass, the more energy required to move said object.
Man currently has no grasp or comprehension of the intrigue of the space/time continuum. Consider, if one left earth on a light speed trip for a year and came back to earth. They might very well find 100's or years have passed here on earth, while only a year has passed for the traveler. Humans anchor time to the rotation of our planet around the sun, gauge it by age as time passes. We have to learn to see time differently. As a fourth dimension, which we do live in. x,y,z, & “where in time” define our true location.
I’ve done lectures on the topic (Relativity.) We are learning however, and talk like this helps our simple minds consider the possibilities.
Black holes are so dense and have such large masses that not even light itself can escape their gravitational force.
Plus, we are only immortal for a limited time. (Neil Pert)
[Updated on: Thu, 02 October 2003 12:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50227] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 10:54 |
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Cpo64
Messages: 1246
Registered: February 2003
Location: Powell River, B.C. Canada
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| EnderGate |
Intriguing, but let us look at the facts…
| Albert Einstein |
If one could just go fast enough, one could arrive at a destination BEFORE one left.
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"The theory of relativity has been proven." "[I]f one left earth on a light speed trip for a year and came back to earth. They might very well find 100's or years have passed here on earth, while only a year has passed for the traveler."
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You contradit your self if the "Theory of Relativity" was proven, it would bit the Law of Relativity, And if it is true, travaling at the speed of light, no time would have passed for them.
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50237] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 12:17 |
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EnderGate
Messages: 97
Registered: August 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| EnderGate |
Man currently has no grasp or comprehension of the intrigue of the space/time continuum.
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I am human, and stake no exception in this, there is more that we do not know than we do. Keep an open mind was my point. My intentions are not to persuade you. Remain a non-believer. The facts are there. And yes, one would have to travel faster than light to go backwards in time, theorized. And sorry, the entire theory hasn’t been proven, it’s beyond our current means, but it has been proven that velocity and mass are directly proportional, where as velocity and time are in-directly proportional. Nit picker…
Fact is, if there are billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, making up billion of trillions of celestial bodies as orbital. It is a possibility beyond man's comprehension. Most every lighted dot you see in the sky at night is not one little star, what most call stars in the night sky are actually galaxies, containing billions of stars and/or formations. Hubble has shown us this in the last 10 years.
1 million seconds is over 11 days.
1 billion seconds is over 32 YEARS
1 trillion seconds is over 31,709 YEARS
Get the idea of the possibilities? The odds are say 1/billion for other intelligent life, then it is out there. Probability suggests it alone. However even if we could travel at the speed of light, and if even as close as a million light years away form it/them (close in the universe, however not in time) It would take to LONG to reach them and impossible to cross paths.
StarGates or WormHoles could exist, but that understanding requires knowledge and understanding how space and time interact or fold or twist.
[Updated on: Fri, 03 October 2003 08:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50238] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 12:32 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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About a year ago, I wrote a paper in which I attempted to define time as a fourth axis. Since then, Ender, you're the only other person I've seen who also related time to the XYZ axes
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When looking at a two dimensional coordinate plane, you have two factors that account for something’s location. It’s position on the x-axis, and it’s position on the y-axis. There are two dimensions in the coordinate plane, and thus it is two-dimensional. However, when you add another dimension, you have more to account for when relating position as it becomes a three-dimensional space. When working in space, the added dimension is the z-axis, more commonly known as height. The same as when working in two dimensions, you must know the objects position on each axis in order to locate it’s position relative to any other existing object.
The axes represent each dimensional value required to locate and assign a position to an object. Because we can only see three dimensions, we assume that our world is three-dimensional, and therefore we use three axes. This, however, is not the case.
An object may physically exist in but three dimensions, yet there is another dimension which determines its position, this being it’s chronic position. If the axes help us to pinpoint an object’s location, then they must account for it's fourth dynamic position: it's position in time.
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But back on track with the Theory of Relativity...
I don't know how many of you have read it, or even know what it is aside from what's already been said, but it truly is amazing.
As an example, think of it like this. You're floating in a giant void, with nothing around you. Can you tell if you're drifting in one direction or the other? No, you can't. It's just a giant void, you have nothing to relate your movement to. Thus, movement is relative.
If you have another object in the void with you, say a ball, can you tell if it's moving? You may think so, but you can't. If you saw the ball drifting away, it would be impossible to prove whether the ball was moving away from you or if you were moving away from the ball.
Now let's say you have a green ball and a red ball. If the green and red balls start getting further away, can you prove whether it's you or the balls moving again? Nope.
Now, instead of adding another ball, let's add all the mass in the universe. Every last piece of matter. Just like normal, you're on Earth. Now, you jump. Did you propel yourself upwards, or did you propel everything in the universe downwards? You propelling yourself upwards seems most logical of course, but the fact is, it can't be proven, so we cannot assume it.
Further, it goes on to explain the effects of time on everything, but my fingers are aching now, so I'll take a break. Maybe Ender would like to pick up where I left off
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50275] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 16:48 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I'm a religious person, so I believe in a Heaven & Hell, but I'm also a very scientific person.
So, I've thought about a "scientific" afterlife more than once. As far as science knows today, the only thing making up our memories are electric signals.
The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed. So, when you die, what happens to the energy that was making up your memories? It leaves. It enters the energy field of the universe until it's needed again.
When is it needed? Well, the birth of something is just one minor event that would require energy. I'm sure you can think of millions of other things, so I'm not going to list them...but anyway, it makes sense as far as I'm concerned. It's frightening to believe that once you die, though, you're just...not. You're old energy is dispersed and being used in some form or another, but you're not concious.
Heh...lot more complicated than "Death = Heaven or Hell", eh?
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50304] |
Thu, 02 October 2003 23:34 |
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burnt_out
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2003
Location: las vegas nevada
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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hmmm. where to start .. i've been up for a while now so, i'll start out slow.
ok, traveling at the speed of light has a whole mess of problems that have to be delt with , first we have to figure out how to do it of course. but then what compounds should be used to make the ship it' self ?how would it be powerd? how much fuel ,or even food and water would you need to have to travel , say 5 million light years , if time is relitive , and like what was said in an earlier post , if you did travel that far and at the speed of light and a 100 years has gone by on earth and only say a month or two went by in the ship i guess has far has planning the food and water . you would only need take enough for that month or two ...same would go's for the fuel needed , and as far as i know there is no set mathmatics to figure that one out yet. and it would be a real bummer to find out that you didnt ad it up right and your still a 1/4 millon light years away from earth with no food,water,or fuel
another problem is you dont just get in a ship that go's at light speed and say "ok we are going to that stars solar system" get in ,put your seat belt on and take off. you have to map out a path , or in this case a computer would and for the most part the computer could do that if all the info about the big stuff in our galaxy was put into the computer telling the computer how fast the stars and planets are moveing that are between point A and B, then the computer would know how to plot a course to where you wanted to go without running into say, a planet. 'cause at the speed of light , you just dont slam on the brakes if something jumps out in front of you.
now here is the problem , space has a bunch of junk floating around in it, from rocks and meteors the size of say a 2 liter coke cap to the size of earth.the point is the computer is not going to know about every thing that might be in the way . now im thinking if your ship is cruseing at light speed or better , and it hits a rock of solid metal the size of say your car or even smaller , your going to be a part of all that junk floating around out there.
well i could go on , but i think you all get the point here , there is alot more to figureing out how to go the speed of light then just figureing out to make something move that fast,
so if there are "worm holes" and maybe ways of" folding" "or "bending" time or space ect.. i think that might be the better way to look at long range space travel.or at least incorperate that into traveling at high speeds.
now think of this ... if you think like i do and KNOW there has to be other life out there. and because we know how long are our planet ,galaxy ect.. have been around. then i also beleave there are beings out there that have been around alot longer then we have, why havent we seen THEM yet ? or heard them yet with our big radio disc that do nothing but listen space. "disstance" this will be my last point...."disstance". even at the speed in witch radio wave travel the fact is we have only been puting strong radio waves out for 75 years witch means they havent gottin anywhere yet. because of the vast disstances between anything in space . NGC 3184, a large spiral galaxy is 25 million light years away from the Earth. the JSP - NGC 3486 Galaxy is 30 million, the JSP - NGC2523 Galaxy is 150 million and so on and so on. so even if we did or any other living beings could travel at the speed of light they still wont be getting very far, very fast.so for me, to think of true space travel between these vast disstances it is going to take alot more then just a ship that moves at speed of light.
ok, time to put these old bones to bed, i might come back in a few days and put my two cents in on some of these other topics that are in here too,
please exuse my spelling , Bunrt_out
hydrogen... everythings True birth mother....
[Updated on: Fri, 03 October 2003 01:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Parallel Universes, Time Travel, Physics, & Meaning of l [message #50305] |
Fri, 03 October 2003 00:02 |
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Scythar
Messages: 580
Registered: February 2003
Location: Finland
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Yes, even if we could travel at light speed, it would still take a long long time to reach even the closest galaxies. I think we should study the center of our own galaxy first,as it's being accepted by more and more scientists every year that there indeed is a worm hole in the center of the Milky Way.
Another guestion: How relative is size? We spend huge amount of money and other resources when we study the space, not to mention that we also pollute our own planet. Maybe we're going to the wrong way? Maybe we should invent better microscopes and look "downward" into the smaller particles. For now, it seems that quarks are the smallest of them, but it's already believed that there are "sub-quarks" which are even smaller. Who knows what we'll find from below our foots after couple hundred years.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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