Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » 9/11 Treason
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #196262 is a reply to message #196260] |
Fri, 14 April 2006 18:38   |
Berkut
Messages: 508
Registered: July 2005
Location: N/A
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| SpyGuy246 wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 20:33 |
I think this topic is better than the original one, personally.
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Amen. !vote change topic to "Homophones."  (jk)
PS: For the idiots:
homophone >noun: each of two or more words having the same pronunciation but different meanings, origins, or spelling (e.g. new and knew).
-Wordperfect definition. Copy-pasted.
[Updated on: Fri, 14 April 2006 19:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #196307 is a reply to message #196247] |
Fri, 14 April 2006 22:01 |
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Ryan3k
Messages: 363
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
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| DarkDemin wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 19:51 |
| Ryan3k wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 16:21 |
Well, statistics show that countries with strict gun-control have substantially lower levels of violent crime. However, the right to bear arms shall not be infringed...
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WRONG!
http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm
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1. Fact: The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.1
2. Fact: Gun control has done nothing to keep crime rates from rising in many of the nations that have imposed severe firearms restrictions.
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%."2
* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted." 3
* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.4
* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low."5
3. Fact: British citizens are now more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States:
* In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.
* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's."6 The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."7
* The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.8
4. Fact: British authorities routinely underreport crime statistics. Comparing statistics between different nations can be quite difficult since foreign officials frequently use different standards in compiling crime statistics.
* The British media has remained quite critical of authorities there for "fiddling" with crime data. Consider some of the headlines in their papers: "Crime figures a sham, say police,"9 "Police are accused of fiddling crime data,"10 and "Police figures under-record offences by 20 percent."11
* British police have also criticized the system because of the "widespread manipulation" of crime data:
a. "Officers said that pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage' statistics."12
b. Sgt. Mike Bennett says officers have become increasingly frustrated with the practice of manipulating statistics. "The crime figures are meaningless," he said. "Police everywhere know exactly what is going on."13
c. According to The Electronic Telegraph, "Officers said the recorded level of crime bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being committed."14
* Underreporting crime data: "One former Scotland Yard officer told The Telegraph of a series of tricks that rendered crime figures 'a complete sham.' A classic example, he said, was where a series of homes in a block flats were burgled and were regularly recorded as one crime. Another involved pickpocketing, which was not recorded as a crime unless the victim had actually seen the item being stolen."15
* Underreporting murder data: British crime reporting tactics keep murder rates artificially low. "Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it counts as nothing at all. 'With such differences in reporting criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British homicide rates is a sham,' [a 2000 report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary] concludes."16
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http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/lott3.html
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp
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If you could show me some results from an academic journal as opposed to "GUNOWNERS.ORG" to prove your point, it would have much more validity.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
Here's an article from that biased mess that you linked me that is nested within the footnotes (a clever guise designed to make the site look credible). Anywho, this study says that "A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned." Guess who commissioned this research? "The Countryside Alliance's Campaign for Shooting." How convenient.
If you can show me an example where the study above has been replicated in the same area by a different and independent group of researchers, I will take your word for it. However, many of these little "studies" often have pitfalls and the results are plain WRONG. Anyone who takes a beginner's course in deviance/criminology knows that. In the meantime, interest groups pick and choose the findings that support their beliefs, discarding/ignoring others.
A Path Beyond
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #196330 is a reply to message #195869] |
Sat, 15 April 2006 01:14 |
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DarkDemin
Messages: 1483
Registered: March 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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| Quote: |
If you could show me some results from an academic journal as opposed to "GUNOWNERS.ORG" to prove your point, it would have much more validity.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
Here's an article from that biased mess that you linked me that is nested within the footnotes (a clever guise designed to make the site look credible). Anywho, this study says that "A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned." Guess who commissioned this research? "The Countryside Alliance's Campaign for Shooting." How convenient.
If you can show me an example where the study above has been replicated in the same area by a different and independent group of researchers, I will take your word for it. However, many of these little "studies" often have pitfalls and the results are plain WRONG. Anyone who takes a beginner's course in deviance/criminology knows that. In the meantime, interest groups pick and choose the findings that support their beliefs, discarding/ignoring others.
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http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/asc/ASC2002/ASC02-Talk.pdf
http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm
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* Right-to-carry laws require law enforcement agencies to issue handgun permits to all qualified applicants. Qualifications include criteria such as age, a clean criminal record, and completing a firearm safety course. (13)
* In 1986, nine states had right-to-carry laws. (14)
* As of 1998, 31 states have right-to-carry laws, and about half the U.S. population lives in these states. (3)
* Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. At the time the law was passed, critics predicted increases in violence. The founder of the National Organization of Women, Betty Friedan stated:
"lethal violence, even in self defense, only engenders more violence." (13)
* When the law went into effect, the Dade County Police began a program to record all arrest and non arrest incidents involving concealed carry licensees. Between September of 1987 and August of 1992, Dade County recorded 4 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. None of these crimes resulted in an injury. The record keeping program was abandoned in 1992 because there were not enough incidents to justify tracking them. (13)(15)
* Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:
Florida United States
homicide rate -36% -0.4%
firearm homicide rate -37% +15%
handgun homicide rate -41% +24%
(3)
* 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. (15)
* As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense. (7)
* As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life. (7)
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197012 is a reply to message #195869] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 17:42 |
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Feetseek
Messages: 239
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I can't see why some people just believe their story without giving the opposing story a chance??
PS: Not saying that anyone here do this, just a lot of people on Earth 
"I wumbo, you wumbo, he, she, wombo, wombo, wombo-ing, wobology, the study of wombo, it's first grade SpongeBob" - Patrick Star.
Burntfirex
Feetseek
Oompaball
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197334 is a reply to message #195869] |
Sat, 22 April 2006 07:27 |
renwarrior
Messages: 30
Registered: February 2006
Location: uk
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i jsut watched 1 video (loose change) and it was pretty convincing. the pentegon attack looks pretty fake if it was an aircraft that hit it. but as for the twin towers attack...i really dont know what side to believe. there is a lot of evidence on both. but the way i see it is this:
if it was a terrorist attack,why planes?? i mean it would have been much more effective just to simply drive a few armoured van/trucks in to the building. a few dozen or so armed men. basically all they had to do was get in.kill the secruity. go to where they needed to detonate the bombs and blow up the towers. why go to all the bother of hijacking planes and doing little damage to the buildings at the start and giving more people the chance of escape. if they had bombed teh building with suicide bombers on foot, they would have killed more people and could even have attacked hte buildings around them.more effective.
if it was a setup though,why go to all the bother again with the planes?? they could have simply blown up the towers with explosives and blamed it on terrorists.it would have been more convincing.or they could even have paid terrorists to do it.
but this is just what i think. since it is to do with america i really dont care very much since i live in the uk.but if the government wont release all the evidence of the attacks then they obviously have something to hide.
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197361 is a reply to message #195869] |
Sat, 22 April 2006 15:43 |
renwarrior
Messages: 30
Registered: February 2006
Location: uk
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what i meant was,hijack the building with sucide bombers. they dont just ahv to sneak in. a full on attack would scare teh shit outta u if u saw it and didnt expect it. u wuld 'terrorize' them by slaughtering hundreds of innocents and when swat teams and police show up detonate them selves severly damaging the building and causing its destruction. besides it was just a rough idea.
people have their own opinions and their rightt o free speech u know. with the amount of evidence against the terrorist attack on its own would make you question the story.
[Updated on: Sat, 22 April 2006 15:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197374 is a reply to message #195869] |
Sat, 22 April 2006 17:54 |
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Crimson
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Registered: February 2003
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Maybe you should NOT try to plan a terrorist attack before the Secret Service and the CIA want to investigate you?
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197700 is a reply to message #195869] |
Tue, 25 April 2006 15:06 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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Here's a question that hasn't been asked for the duration of this topic:
"Who cares?"
England's gun-related crime is irrelevant to the fact that the second amendment guarentees:
| Mad TV version of Karl Malone |
The right to bear arms, and "arms" means guns and "bear" means have, so that means you should bear guns.
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And it's most likely not going to change for a while.
As for the 9/11 stuff? Drop it. It's over. The time for that was about 4 years ago, when people still gave a shit.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197759 is a reply to message #195869] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 00:03 |
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Feetseek
Messages: 239
Registered: February 2006
Location: Los Gatos, California, Ho...
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"Those who forget the past are condemmed to repeat it." ........... or at least something like that 
"I wumbo, you wumbo, he, she, wombo, wombo, wombo-ing, wobology, the study of wombo, it's first grade SpongeBob" - Patrick Star.
Burntfirex
Feetseek
Oompaball
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197783 is a reply to message #197757] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 08:20 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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| DarkDemin wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 23:29 |
| Dover wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 18:06 |
As for the 9/11 stuff? Drop it. It's over. The time for that was about 4 years ago, when people still gave a shit.
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WRONG!
9/11 is still very relavent and the subject is still very touchy for most Americans. You do realize we are still engaged in a war that stemmed from 9/11. Stop being an ignorant child.
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You like to judge, don't you DarkDemin?
Perhaps I should've made myself clear:
| Dover wrote on Tue, 25 Aptril 2006 15:06 |
The time for stupid conspiricy theories was 4 years ago, when people actually might've believed them.
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| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #197803 is a reply to message #195869] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 10:46 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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My bad, then.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: 9/11 Treason [message #460727 is a reply to message #195869] |
Sat, 10 December 2011 19:59 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
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General (2 Stars) |
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With Goztow gone, thread-bumpage shall recommence.
So do people here still believe that 9/11 was an inside job or did they all pass grade 10?
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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