Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0
| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445115 is a reply to message #445048] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 23:19   |
Gohax
Messages: 738
Registered: January 2009
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Will ANY Direct connects be able to work? (RenIP, renlist, etc) If so, I may end up joining the server for the next couple weeks and help test it. Other than that, can't join, as I use RR.
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·OTBot·Gohax killed beerfull4 (Black Hand Sniper/Sniper Rifle Vs. Deadeye/Sniper Rifle).
·OTBot·beerfull4: see that for sure a auto aim
·OTBot·beerfull4: u know how i can tell
·OTBot·Gohax: LOL
·OTBot·Gohax: how can you tell?
·OTBot·beerfull4: becuz your american and americans are like that
·OTBot·Gohax: LOL!
·OTBot·beerfull4 has left the game.
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445116 is a reply to message #445106] |
Tue, 22 March 2011 01:05 |
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Spyder
Messages: 1070
Registered: March 2006
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| Nightma12 wrote on Tue, 22 March 2011 03:38 |
o ffs guys...
What features do you want to keep that are in RR? Ask... and if enough people want them it will be added to TT.
Now stop bitching.
kthx.
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The serverlist and direct-connect function is most important to me and apparently to most other people here too.
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445120 is a reply to message #445103] |
Tue, 22 March 2011 01:45 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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| grant89uk wrote on Tue, 22 March 2011 02:01 |
| NACHO-ARG wrote on Mon, 21 March 2011 23:00 |
i think he means the litle box at the right of conect buton if you let it uncheked you will join whitout RR coding features, and 1 of the cualitys of join by resurrection is the speed even doesnt have to wait for testing badwhit, and the niks of the player spawn at the top of the head and some otters thing i like obout RR that makes my lobe it. to bad that will not work whit TT
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I meant clarification on whether joining with that box unchecked WOULD make it work with 4.0 or if its the whole RR program in general.
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No idea. Depends on whether RR still hooks some things or not. Is the serverlist think a different executable which one can also use when RR is not installed? If so, it would work. If it still hooks some bits then it's likely to not work, but even then it might be possible.
| KobraOps wrote on Tue, 22 March 2011 00:29 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Mon, 21 March 2011 01:30 |
| HaTe wrote on Mon, 21 March 2011 04:46 |
So I'm curious to as why this wasn't/isn't a priority? Around 25% of the Renegade community having to uninstall it because of the scripts seems as if it would be a bit concerning to the TT team? If it's going to be possibly added on by a later update, it's obviously possible, right?
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I knew this would turn in a ragefest. It is pretty much impossible to fix certain things without rewriting some other bits. If RR is hacking into those bits, RR or TT will break. It's not something we can avoid, not if we want to fix the bug/issue in that bit of code.
Also forcerr will NOT be needed anymore because the AC is way ahead of what RR currently does. (Actually it proves that 0x90 isn't interested in Renegade anymore, but besides that it's of no use when TT is out).
If there are specific features from RR then it *MIGHT* be possible to include them in TT, but no guarantees and this will certainly not be allowing RR to work with TT. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
Edit: Also 85% of all statistics used in arguments are false. Prove the 25% you're assuming, based more than one or two servers.
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HaTe is using calm complete sentences with grammar, I wouldn't exactly call that a ragefest.
Rhetorical statistics aside, RR is important to the renegade community.
It would be impossible for TT to still be compatible (if it is so different from 3.4.4 as it sounds). So the only thing that could be done now is for Yrr (if I remember correctly the author of RR) to rewrite RR to be compatible with 4.0
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Ok, agreed on the calm and complete sentences, but still it's not like he's explaining what he wants, besides RR. Which, as stated more than once, cannot work with TT unless, as you mentioned, Yrr updates TT.
I'm personally unsure how RR will be important to Renegade AFTER the release of TT, as I think most features/bugfixes RR has are implemented in TT (and often enough improved/extended).
| Nightma12 wrote on Tue, 22 March 2011 03:38 |
o ffs guys...
What features do you want to keep that are in RR? Ask... and if enough people want them it will be added to TT.
Now stop bitching.
kthx.
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^^ With Nightma12. We can't make RR work with TT, but if there are (useful) functions in RR that you really want ported, it might be possible to do so. If you really want RR to work with TT, you should bug Yrr I'm afraid.
| Gohax wrote on Tue, 22 March 2011 07:19 |
Will ANY Direct connects be able to work? (RenIP, renlist, etc) If so, I may end up joining the server for the next couple weeks and help test it. Other than that, can't join, as I use RR.
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Learn to read please. We did NEVER state that direct connect would not work anymore. The only thing that will not work is RR because of the things it does with the Renegade executable/scripts. Those bits are incompatible, not direct connect.
| Spyder wrote on Tue, 22 March 2011 09:05 |
| Nightma12 wrote on Tue, 22 March 2011 03:38 |
o ffs guys...
What features do you want to keep that are in RR? Ask... and if enough people want them it will be added to TT.
Now stop bitching.
kthx.
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The serverlist and direct-connect function is most important to me and apparently to most other people here too.
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Serverlist: idk, perhaps we could do something with the launcher, but really depends on the time it would take.
Direct connect: will definitively work.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445177 is a reply to message #445048] |
Tue, 22 March 2011 21:40 |
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halo2pac
Messages: 659
Registered: December 2006
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
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Colonel |
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| jonwil wrote on Sun, 20 March 2011 06:26 |
Here is a list of things that (as of right now) can't be run alongside scripts 4.0:
Old server side mods (SSAOW, SSCTF, SSAPB)
SSGM/SSAOW plugins that are not written specifically for 4.0
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Dear God... I aint installing it, unless a new SS-Moding-the-shit-out-of-the-server.dll sdk is included, and a hell of a lot of the community probably feels that way too. Hell, I'd stop playing and modding, renegade.
Though, I could be jumping to conclusions.
Rene-Buddy | Renegade X
Join the fight against Obsessive-Compulsive Posting Disorder. Cancel is ur friend.
*Renegade X Dev Team Member*
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445183 is a reply to message #445177] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 01:22 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
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General (3 Stars) |
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| halo2pac wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 05:40 |
| jonwil wrote on Sun, 20 March 2011 06:26 |
Here is a list of things that (as of right now) can't be run alongside scripts 4.0:
Old server side mods (SSAOW, SSCTF, SSAPB)
SSGM/SSAOW plugins that are not written specifically for 4.0
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Dear God... I aint installing it, unless a new SS-Moding-the-shit-out-of-the-server.dll sdk is included, and a hell of a lot of the community probably feels that way too. Hell, I'd stop playing and modding, renegade.
Though, I could be jumping to conclusions.
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You could write new plugins for SSGM4.0...
It's just that old plugins will need to be updated/rewritten to work with the new interface.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445208 is a reply to message #445190] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 13:33 |
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HaTe
Messages: 923
Registered: August 2007
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Colonel |
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Who on the TT team even plays Renegade anymore? That is, plays it regularly? If there is anyone at all, then I'm sure they can confirm the number I used, EWD. I'm not bashing or raging against TT whatsoever, I'm just curious on where this will leave servers like 1337-snipers that are already so reliant on RR; as well as players who currently use RR (which happens to be a lot of people). You stated that all I want is RR to work with TT.....that's not true. Sure, it'd be nice, but I get that it wouldn't really be possible. So, all I'm asking is where that leaves people like myself who use RR, and servers like 1337 who rely on it? Are we all stuck to choose between the two? It sounds to me like that's the way it seems. Sure, 4.0 will obviously replace RR if that's the case - I am aware of that.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2011 13:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445209 is a reply to message #445208] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 14:52 |
lion
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| HaTe wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 13:33 |
So, all I'm asking is where that leaves people like myself who use RR, and servers like 1337 who rely on it? Are we all stuck to choose between the two?
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Yes, you are stuck to choose between the two. But you are not reading properly. All people using RR should/would start using TT once it is released, as TT provides the same (and even more) functionality.
As EWD said before, what functionality is provided in RR which will be missing in TT?
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445214 is a reply to message #445209] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 15:43 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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General (3 Stars) |
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| lion wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 22:52 |
| HaTe wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 13:33 |
So, all I'm asking is where that leaves people like myself who use RR, and servers like 1337 who rely on it? Are we all stuck to choose between the two?
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Yes, you are stuck to choose between the two. But you are not reading properly. All people using RR should/would start using TT once it is released, as TT provides the same (and even more) functionality.
As EWD said before, what functionality is provided in RR which will be missing in TT?
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Congratulations, we have found someone ON RENFORUMS that can ACTUALLY READ. 
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445215 is a reply to message #445214] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 16:08 |
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HaTe
Messages: 923
Registered: August 2007
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Colonel |
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The fact that it's already downloaded, being used, and used to? Before this topic I just sort of figured I could keep using it and 4.0 together (like I have been doing with 3.4). It's a complete shame that I cannot. That's all I'm getting at, EWD. No need to get emotional about it..
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2011 16:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445217 is a reply to message #445048] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 17:08 |
StealthEye
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I have no idea why you would want to install and use both RR and TT, but it would be strange to support this because it involves changing a few dlls and other files depending on which one you want to run. There just seems no reason to implement switching between those.
Just to clarify: the reason why TT and RR are so incompatible is because they use the same method of hooking many functions. This approch allows for much larger changes in the Renegade code and is way more flexible than what, for example, BIATCH and scripts 3.4.4 do. The disadvantage is compatability: for example, RR might have cloned some functions related to netcode, and TT has cloned almost every netcode function. Now, if TT's netcode is partially combined with RR netcode, clearly there will be problems.
Bottom line is, there is no real way to use RR and TT at the same time. Installing them alongside is possible, but it would require some weird automatic dll renames and such things before running the game. If you really want it, you'd have to write a script for that, or install Renegade twice (possibly using mklink to use a single, shared data directory); at this point, we do not think it is worth the significant amount of work to implement an easier method.
BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445218 is a reply to message #445208] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 17:19 |
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cAmpa
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Registered: March 2006
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Colonel |
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| HaTe wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 21:33 |
Who on the TT team even plays Renegade anymore? That is, plays it regularly? If there is anyone at all, then I'm sure they can confirm the number I used, EWD. I'm not bashing or raging against TT whatsoever, I'm just curious on where this will leave servers like 1337-snipers that are already so reliant on RR; as well as players who currently use RR (which happens to be a lot of people). You stated that all I want is RR to work with TT.....that's not true. Sure, it'd be nice, but I get that it wouldn't really be possible. So, all I'm asking is where that leaves people like myself who use RR, and servers like 1337 who rely on it? Are we all stuck to choose between the two? It sounds to me like that's the way it seems. Sure, 4.0 will obviously replace RR if that's the case - I am aware of that.
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If TT will be that what it should be, you won't miss RR because i will update the l337 server for scripts 4.0.
The client will uninstall RR and install TT, the gameplay should be the same, maybe better who knows. 
Bückstabü!
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445220 is a reply to message #445218] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 17:26 |
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HaTe
Messages: 923
Registered: August 2007
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Colonel |
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| cAmpa wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 17:19 |
| HaTe wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 21:33 |
Who on the TT team even plays Renegade anymore? That is, plays it regularly? If there is anyone at all, then I'm sure they can confirm the number I used, EWD. I'm not bashing or raging against TT whatsoever, I'm just curious on where this will leave servers like 1337-snipers that are already so reliant on RR; as well as players who currently use RR (which happens to be a lot of people). You stated that all I want is RR to work with TT.....that's not true. Sure, it'd be nice, but I get that it wouldn't really be possible. So, all I'm asking is where that leaves people like myself who use RR, and servers like 1337 who rely on it? Are we all stuck to choose between the two? It sounds to me like that's the way it seems. Sure, 4.0 will obviously replace RR if that's the case - I am aware of that.
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If TT will be that what it should be, you won't miss RR because i will update the l337 server for scripts 4.0.
The client will uninstall RR and install TT, the gameplay should be the same, maybe better who knows.
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That'd be good, but I'm still curious about this "sniper scope lag fix"...
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2011 17:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445222 is a reply to message #445220] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 17:58 |
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cAmpa
Messages: 597
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| Hitman wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 01:24 |
fuck RR
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Fuck you.
| HaTe wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 01:26 |
| cAmpa wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 17:19 |
| HaTe wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 21:33 |
Who on the TT team even plays Renegade anymore? That is, plays it regularly? If there is anyone at all, then I'm sure they can confirm the number I used, EWD. I'm not bashing or raging against TT whatsoever, I'm just curious on where this will leave servers like 1337-snipers that are already so reliant on RR; as well as players who currently use RR (which happens to be a lot of people). You stated that all I want is RR to work with TT.....that's not true. Sure, it'd be nice, but I get that it wouldn't really be possible. So, all I'm asking is where that leaves people like myself who use RR, and servers like 1337 who rely on it? Are we all stuck to choose between the two? It sounds to me like that's the way it seems. Sure, 4.0 will obviously replace RR if that's the case - I am aware of that.
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If TT will be that what it should be, you won't miss RR because i will update the l337 server for scripts 4.0.
The client will uninstall RR and install TT, the gameplay should be the same, maybe better who knows.
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That'd be good, but I'm still curious about this "sniper scope lag fix"...
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I think it's the same as in RR.
If not we will find a solution, just be patient and give changes a chance.
Bückstabü!
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445224 is a reply to message #445222] |
Wed, 23 March 2011 19:36 |
evanscnce
Messages: 84
Registered: April 2004
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| cAmpa wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 20:58 |
| Hitman wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 01:24 |
fuck RR
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Fuck you.
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lol'd hard
Anyways, its hard to say what features from RR we want in TT until we can try TT (IMO) I personally am looking forward to the change (especially since CaMpA writes the bot for the server I play at most lol)
One thing I can't stand when I don't run RR is having the player name in the middle of the body. Over the top like RR does is far better in my personal yet always correct opinion.
So, with the "advantage skin blocking" what all will be blocked? Or will it be a per server decision?
I have kind of fallen off the TT wagon and haven't been paying attention, so if this has been answered already (I don't feel like searching around to be honest) I apologize and would gladly welcome a link to another thread I can take a look at.
[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2011 19:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445232 is a reply to message #445220] |
Thu, 24 March 2011 01:47 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| HaTe wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 01:26 |
| cAmpa wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 17:19 |
| HaTe wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 21:33 |
Who on the TT team even plays Renegade anymore? That is, plays it regularly? If there is anyone at all, then I'm sure they can confirm the number I used, EWD. I'm not bashing or raging against TT whatsoever, I'm just curious on where this will leave servers like 1337-snipers that are already so reliant on RR; as well as players who currently use RR (which happens to be a lot of people). You stated that all I want is RR to work with TT.....that's not true. Sure, it'd be nice, but I get that it wouldn't really be possible. So, all I'm asking is where that leaves people like myself who use RR, and servers like 1337 who rely on it? Are we all stuck to choose between the two? It sounds to me like that's the way it seems. Sure, 4.0 will obviously replace RR if that's the case - I am aware of that.
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If TT will be that what it should be, you won't miss RR because i will update the l337 server for scripts 4.0.
The client will uninstall RR and install TT, the gameplay should be the same, maybe better who knows.
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That'd be good, but I'm still curious about this "sniper scope lag fix"...
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At the start of the project (when Yrr was active and all that) a lot of RR features have been ported over as a start. Later in the process they might have been rewritten, improved, expanded and rewritten again just so that it will perform as stable as possible and as effective as possible. The Scope lag fix is in there, so if that's the only reason for RR you got really nothing to worry about.
If there are more things that normal Ren doesn't have and RR does have, inform us of why they should be included in TT. It's likely that they are already, but then we'll update you on that as well.
@evanscnce:
It's possible for servers to enforce some level of blocking for custom game files, I'm however not aware of the details. I do know that it's possible to set a pure mode or a custom everything mode. Most of this should be in the sticky afaik or on tiberiantechnologies.org.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Stuff that is incompatible with scripts 4.0 [message #445245 is a reply to message #445232] |
Thu, 24 March 2011 13:32 |
evanscnce
Messages: 84
Registered: April 2004
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Recruit |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 04:47 |
@evanscnce:
It's possible for servers to enforce some level of blocking for custom game files, I'm however not aware of the details. I do know that it's possible to set a pure mode or a custom everything mode. Most of this should be in the sticky afaik or on tiberiantechnologies.org.
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OK, thanks for the info, I will check out that site later tonight. I appreciate it =D
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