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Re: Secular democracy [message #417977 is a reply to message #417948]

Mon, 18 January 2010 20:11

Spoony
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Registered: January 2006

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is it complicated? turkey is often called "secular", but it's only "secular" when you compare it to the hardcore islamic states in the middle east, countries like saudi arabia where islam really does have it all its own way. compared to the rest of europe, turkey is by no means secular.

Chew wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 09:02

The funny part of mainstream Christianity mixing with politics is... The Bible teaches against it. So if you claim to be a Christian, you should not be into politics as far as voting/campaigning/running for office. The idea that it teaches is "Pay Ceasar's things to Ceasar and God's things to God"... Which is commonly understood to mean, pay your taxes and follow the laws of the land as long as they do not contradict the laws God has given you.

well, i've always found the render unto caesar concept rather irrelevant. after all (if i don't go into the truth or untruth question either), caesar was a theocratic dictator, as is god.

the concept was used in that manhattan declaration thingy, usual persecution-complex drivel from christians. what was it the document said? "we'll gladly render unto caesar those things that are caesar's, but under no circumstances will we render unto caesar those things that are God's". referring to matters like abortion, tolerance of homosexuals etc.

there are two glaring flaws with this assertion.
1. as i said, caesar was a theocratic dictator. america is a democracy. when you hear an american whingeing about how his system would be so much better if we just submitted to the dictator (god, not caesar) i feel like giving him a good shake and telling him to appreciate what he's got.
2. it's a useless statement until anybody can prove god this even exists, let alone that matters relating to e.g. homosexuality belong to him and are unassailable by silly things like democracy. (and even if this god did exist and did indeed have stern views on these things, i'd still be telling him to fuck off and let us have our democracy instead)

Quote:

Here in America if you can prove your conviction/beliefs well enough, they won't send you to war, even in the middle of a draft. Some think that is BS, well I am not discussing it in depth, just stating the fact.

i'll not discuss it in depth either and simply say that conscription is immoral.

Quote:

Short summary timeline of how the Earth has been ruled, according to The Bible.

1. Earth was perfect, ruled by God
2. Earth lost perfection, Men ruled, some with God others without
3. Earth still not perfect, Men ruling all by themselves
4. Earth restored to perfection, God as ruler again

That is what The Bible says anyways, so we would be in step 3, step 4 is of course is in the future.

Remember all of this is NOT to start a debate about if The Bible is true or false.

well, unfortunately i have to say that until its truth is verified, please don't be disappointed if you aren't taken seriously on the subject. and if the day comes when its truth is verified, prepare for my objections to intensify.

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[Message index]

		Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sat, 16 January 2010 19:43
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 16 January 2010 22:36
		Re: Secular democracy By: Altzan on Sat, 16 January 2010 22:45
		Re: Secular democracy By: NukeIt15 on Sun, 17 January 2010 00:24
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 08:03
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Sun, 17 January 2010 08:51
		Re: Secular democracy By: Sean on Sun, 17 January 2010 15:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:07
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:16
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:41
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Mon, 18 January 2010 09:09
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Sun, 17 January 2010 11:47
		Re: Secular democracy By: liquidv2 on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:26
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:27
		Re: Secular democracy By: liquidv2 on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:50
		Re: Secular democracy By: Canadacdn on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 23:25
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Mon, 18 January 2010 04:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Mon, 18 January 2010 21:17
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Tue, 19 January 2010 07:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Tue, 19 January 2010 07:45
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 10:49
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Tue, 19 January 2010 11:06
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Tue, 19 January 2010 15:47
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 19 January 2010 18:25
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 19:37
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Tue, 19 January 2010 21:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Tue, 19 January 2010 15:00
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Tue, 19 January 2010 16:10
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Wed, 20 January 2010 07:42
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Wed, 20 January 2010 09:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Wed, 20 January 2010 09:07
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Mon, 18 January 2010 06:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Mon, 18 January 2010 08:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Mon, 18 January 2010 20:11
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Tue, 19 January 2010 16:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 18:05
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 07:20
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 20 January 2010 08:39
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 13:52
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Tue, 19 January 2010 05:26
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 13:54
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:11
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:24
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:27
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:34
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Wed, 20 January 2010 17:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Thu, 21 January 2010 02:37
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Thu, 21 January 2010 03:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: JohnDoe on Thu, 21 January 2010 06:12
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Thu, 21 January 2010 06:39
		Re: Secular democracy By: slosha on Fri, 22 January 2010 11:33
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 22 January 2010 11:53
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:49
		Re: Secular democracy By: slosha on Fri, 22 January 2010 13:22
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Sat, 23 January 2010 01:30
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:04
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Fri, 22 January 2010 15:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 23 January 2010 10:44
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sat, 23 January 2010 11:44

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