Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :(
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| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414298 is a reply to message #414296] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 08:15   |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 09:13 |
mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now.
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Ah yes, comments and inuendo about sexual preference. A sure fire way to win the arguement!
Why not just do away with the actual debate all together and out right call him a fag? Oh wait, you did.
You don't look clever, you don't look tough. If you've managed to impress anyone, it's only other retards.
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| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414313 is a reply to message #414296] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 11:50 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 08:13 |
mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now.
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looool.
You do know that Spoony has tried for AGES to come to a compromise between people who want pointsfix and those who don't, right?
Guess who try the hardest to make the compromises? The pro-pointsfix crowd. The anti-pointsfix crowd does nothing but throw out retarded "insults", make up stupid terms they refuse to change (calling the pointsfix a "pointmod" and such), using nonsensical logic constantly (THE POINTSFIX IS BAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT ORIGINAL RENEGADE USED SO POINTSFIX IS BAD), and generally being assholes.
I see no reason why Spoony has to continue with the constant stream of bullshit. And people like you only further my opinion (which seems more and more to be a fact) of the anti-pointsfix crowd.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414318 is a reply to message #414316] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 12:25 |
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HaTe
Messages: 923
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I fail to see how I'm in the anti-pointsfix crowd.
Spoony, you known all of the adjustments the pointsfix made, so why would you want me to restate them? I have no intention of being quote spammed all day long you, as i am sure you would not hesitate to do. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, all i said that is I will adjust to anything, as long as it is fair. Meaning that I will still play with the pointsfix, and i will not complain about it...I just think that some certain things will take some getting used to, and that I personally don't see them necessary. I have no intentions of posting every last one, as you would find a way to try and convince me that it is for the better in each case, and i just wish to save us both the time - I am arrogant. No need attacking a person for posting his opinion, when it is neither with you, or against you, it will just make said person turn more against you in the end. I think that that may be a reason why some people may not like you, but hey, that's just my opinion again.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414323 is a reply to message #414236] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 13:20 |
KobraOps
Messages: 202
Registered: January 2007
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:29 |
| KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 |
| Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 |
"how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?"
indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
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For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years.
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OH GOD NO, CHANGE
I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT
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You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change.
Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf?
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| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414324 is a reply to message #414320] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 13:22 |
KobraOps
Messages: 202
Registered: January 2007
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Chew wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:54 |
So the other day I am playing field. I am on GDI and trying to hold our position at Nod's base front. I had been using a MRLS most of the game, used a few meds when I could afford them... kept losing tanks because nobody was helping in field. It was a smaller game. Getting closer to the end of the round I was noticing somebody else on my team had a lot of points, they were even passing me at some times while I repaired. I look back and see a havoc... apparently this asshole had been sitting there all round shooting the harvester trying to get MVP. I didn't feel he deserved MVP for n00bjetting the harv for 30 mins... so I started trying to kill the harvester as soon as I could. If that stupid point whore would have actually helped me in the field we might have ended that map a lot sooner with a base kill...
Stupid shit like this makes me for pointfix. If you want points you should do something worth the points.
MVP = most valuable player... I don't give a shit how many points you get, you are not truly valuable to the team sniping a harvester... unless of course you downloaded some nifty extra that will enable you to actually kill the damn thing.
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Most servers allow you to shoot enemy buildings with your tank, fyi.
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414326 is a reply to message #414323] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 13:59 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 10:20 |
You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change.
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LOL
| KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 10:20 |
Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf?
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It actually makes perfect sense if you stop and think about it. Oh, wait, haha.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414327 is a reply to message #414323] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 14:08 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 21:20 |
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:29 |
| KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 |
| Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 |
"how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?"
indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
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For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years.
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OH GOD NO, CHANGE
I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT
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You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change.
Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf?
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So, we shouldnt release TT at all  As it will change gameplay (with or without pointfix)
NOES!!!1!
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414333 is a reply to message #414327] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 14:29 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:08 |
| KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 21:20 |
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:29 |
| KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 |
| Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 |
"how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?"
indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
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For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years.
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OH GOD NO, CHANGE
I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT
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You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change.
Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf?
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So, we shouldnt release TT at all As it will change gameplay (with or without pointfix)
NOES!!!1!
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Guess so, EWD. We have been defeated. I guess we should pack up our bags and leave, obviously we're no good to the Renegade community to want the pointsfix
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414346 is a reply to message #414296] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 15:09 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 08:13 |
mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now.
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this is another thing you always see from the anti-pointsfix brigade. whenever someone agrees with me, there's always some way of trying to dismiss what they say because there must be some ulterior motive for it, instead of the simple truth: "he thinks spoony's right"
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote |
You do know that Spoony has tried for AGES to come to a compromise between people who want pointsfix and those who don't, right?
Guess who try the hardest to make the compromises? The pro-pointsfix crowd. The anti-pointsfix crowd does nothing but throw out retarded "insults", make up stupid terms they refuse to change (calling the pointsfix a "pointmod" and such), using nonsensical logic constantly (THE POINTSFIX IS BAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT ORIGINAL RENEGADE USED SO POINTSFIX IS BAD), and generally being assholes.
I see no reason why Spoony has to continue with the constant stream of bullshit. And people like you only further my opinion (which seems more and more to be a fact) of the anti-pointsfix crowd.
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this is true and i've remarked upon it several times. i can and will go further on what the anti-pointsfix crowd likes to do: making up fake quotes and pretending i said them (THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A POINTSFIX DEBATE WHEN THEY DIDN'T TRY THAT!)
no matter how many times the anti-pointsfix crowd get caught lying to the community to try to win an argument, insult anyone who disagrees with them etc etc etc - meanwhile i'm the one going to absolutely incredible lengths to encourage debate, engage everybody's opinion and suggest all sorts of compromises, they still have the bollock-brained stupidity of portraying me as the ignorant, offensive one. it's like something from a lewis carroll novel, it really is.
| SS wrote |
These threads stopped being funny a long time ago.
1. Pointsfix makes public server gameplay better
2. Pointsfix creates more problems than it solves in clanwars
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well, you might wanna try playing clanwars on the new system. four bugs are now fixed, and for the first time they've ALL been fixed. pointsbug, vehicle neutrality (i.e. jumping out of your tank before it dies), harv blocking, and mesa deadzones.
all the maps are now fair. mesa was the exception, but that's precisely because there was another glaring map issue that needed fixing too - and i said so right from the beginning. disallowing harvblock also completes the jigsaw; with no harvblocking and the original renegade points and economy system, we're finally seeing renegade as it was supposed to be in the first place.
creates more problems than it solves? well, you might have been around a couple of years ago when i had to make a certain new rule. you may remember it. certain players would always leave at the start of some maps if they got the "bad" side... maps like field, under, wallsfly. they'd always pretend that wasn't why they were leaving, but you knew it always was. i made a rule putting a stop to that... that rule would be totally unnecessary now because the maps are actually fair.
and here's another big point - every single clanwar has been won by the right team now. that certainly wasn't the case before. a few people like simpee and karmai have tried to give examples to the contrary, and they get refuted immediately every single time. of course, they never admit as much and they'd certainly never change their overall viewpoint based upon it, but hey.
| HaTe wrote |
all i said that is I will adjust to anything, as long as it is fair. Meaning that I will still play with the pointsfix, and i will not complain about it...
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ah. i see where you're coming from. i'm much the same. i'll adjust to things as long as they're fair too... that's why i've been criticising the points bug for years, long before black-intel identified the code problem.
| HaTe wrote |
I just think that some certain things will take some getting used to, and that I personally don't see them necessary.
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again, this is exactly why the points bug is such a big pile of shit and why the pointsfix ought to be implemented widely. the points bug teaches people really shitty habits to new players. i don't think anyone new to the game ought to be subjected to it when they could be playing the game the way it originally was (pointsfix, no harvblock etc).
this is a handy thought-exercise i proposed some time ago. give it a go. let's say the points bug never existed, and let's say someone like... pulling a name out of a hat here... simpee came along and suggested it.
imagine how the conversation would go. remember, everybody by this time is used to the original renegade points and economy system, the pointsfix.
simpee: hi guys, ive got an idea for a points mod.
spoony: go on?
simpee: it will mean you can get too many points for shooting tanks, and it will mean snipers and auto rifles can get points for shooting tanks even though they aren't doing damage.
spoony: ummm.... why?
simpee: i don't know.
spoony: but it doesn't make sense... why did you come to this conclusion?
simpee: you're asking a lot of questions.
spoony: so.... more points shooting tanks, eh?
simpee: well not exactly. here's the clever bit. ONLY WHEN THEY HAVE GREEN HEALTH! tadaa!!
spoony: why? if you think this is a good idea, why not when they have red/yellow health too?
simpee: shut up.
spoony: and why just tanks if this is the way you're thinking? why not infantry too? why not buildings as well?
simpee: there's something scary behind you!
spoony: is there any evidence that this is what was SUPPOSED to happen?
simpee: no, in fact all the evidence is the other way.
spoony: the maps right now are pretty fair... i'm worried that this will affect balance. do you think balance between nod and gdi will be improved by this?
simpee: are you kidding? i can't wait for easy wins on field, under and wallsfly as gdi.
spoony: what about the economy system? if you can get money for no reason too, isn't that a BAD thing for the game's economy system?
simpee: what were we talking about again?
spoony: and isn't this going to teach people bad habits? for example, if there's a tank threatening your base, might not this teach people to shoot it with an autorifle like an idiot instead of actually doing something to fend it off, or fix a building?
simpee: where am i?
spoony: what about individual score? if you can get points for no reason then doesn't that mean individual score is rather meaningless, and therefore the ladder will be devalued?
simpee: i sure hope so.
spoony: so in a nutshell... this idea of yours, this points mod... it doesn't make any kind of sense, it contradicts itself internally, it makes some maps unfair, it ruins the economy system, it devalues the game's ladder, it teaches people stupid habits, and it wasn't supposed to happen in the first place.... is that a fair assessment?
simpee: im gonna spend the next 2 years making up fake quotes and pretending u said them, thatll teach you for disagreeing with me
spoony: without trying to sound too disrespectful, how did you even manage to come up with such a stupid idea?
simpee: dunno, i think i dreamt it
After all that, do you think anyone would want the points bug? all of its effects on gameplay are bad. I think I might actually start calling that "the point mod" from now on. after all, that's pretty much exactly what it is. people may have noticed that recently i've started referring to the pointsfix by another term: "the original renegade points and economy system".
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Thu, 17 December 2009 15:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414355 is a reply to message #414352] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 15:40 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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indeed, a fanatical unwillingness to admit error is another staple of the anti-pointsfix crowd.
what's really funny is simpee tries to make the same point against me - indeed, he said so barely a day ago - which would indicate that he disapproves of that kind of behaviour. trouble is he keeps getting proven wrong when he says so about me
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414363 is a reply to message #414362] |
Thu, 17 December 2009 16:49 |
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HaTe
Messages: 923
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Well, about the infantry shooting tanks thing, usually a heavy armored tank will easily kill an infantry unit, so the infantry unit needs something to get out of defending himself from the tank, points will work. I suppose maybe that is what EA and Westwood were thinking? It's more logic that what your fake logs with Simpee have at least  , still though, I see what you mean, and the pointsfix is for the better, sometimes, in my opinion.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
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