Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The Pointsfix and the Game Listings
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406162 is a reply to message #406146] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 09:30   |
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Spoony
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| stoned wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 15:57 |
I'd say that jelly's statement about this being about getting your pointsfix, pure-strategy server near the top of the listing is rather accurate, yet for pages you continued to claim that this wasn't part of the the objective.
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don't lie, please. everyone on jelly said: you're only doing this because we took the pointsfix off clanwars, and because you want a pointsfix server up there.
no, no, no. i am directly (and very clearly) criticising jelly's monopoly at all, the fact that one community with clear bias gets to choose who gets them. this means that deserving projects like black-cell, blackintel, and the TT ladder server, don't get one purely because jelly says we don't. never mind that blackcell and blackintel are long-established respected communities who've done all this useful coding and let everybody use it, and never mind that for years i was the only person who could be bothered hosting a decent ladder for anybody at all and am now poised doing so for the actual public server ladder, not just clanwars. jelly says no, so no.
i did not say: "give me one and i'll be happy". if i did, i probably WOULD have gone to jelly in private and sorted it out in a shady deal behind closed doors, like he says i should've done. well, the fact that's the way it goes with the a00 names is precisely the problem in the first place.
but hey, how about i drop the bar?
there are three i just mentioned; jelly has, what, four active servers under the jelly banner? would it be grossly unreasonable for him to keep one a00 name for a jelly server and give three away, one to blackintel, one to blackcell, and one to TT for the use by a server devoted to the new ladder?
everyone knows jelly servers are there by now, they've enjoyed the top spot for what, 4 years?
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 09:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406163 is a reply to message #406110] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 09:32 |
Cunin
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| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 02:48 |
I believe you exonerated yourself...Your explanation that you were simply logging in to our nickname (which crashes the server) to see if the password was changed didnt jive with the fact that you did this at least THIRTY THREE times.
Also, way to attribute our loss of players to this when the more logical explanation is that school has started and people dont have as much time to play Renegade...Im sure you will find that servers across the board have had a dip in playercount.
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Exactly. She exonerated herself and no one that I know, which isn't part of NS or had some favour given by her, is believing her story.
Our player count can be explained in many ways, one being the successful sabotage of our server by her, and another one being most of our staff which is pretty busy lately, with either thing, so can't make a decent player count to start with (and naturally anything random you can think of, as no one can give an exact explanation of these events, regardless of what some people showing nice stats data can say).
Anyway she can keep pointing out "other communities faults" (from her point of view obviously), as that only makes her look worse. Like not missing an occasion to show that our player count on the renegade server (because the other servers are better, and we have lots of activity in our forums and IRC) is low, not missing a chance to say, out of the blue and totally out of the context, that jelly's IRC server:
| Crimson |
from what I've heard experience excessive downtime and netsplits that happen next to never on my network, but that's neither here nor there, right?
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which is totally wrong. There has been a few netsplits and no downtime that I can remeber, and anyway nothing so big that makes it worth mentioning.
Just to add something funny about this all, this is NS's renegade server channel topic:
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{N00bstories Renegade Server n00bsvr01 || a0000000 - 50 player CCM || Back to school doens't seem to be a problem for us || We don't even need to pay people to play here! || Guess 2 and 3 months weren't so special huh? || When the server is full the silence speaks volumes! ||}
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406178 is a reply to message #405549] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 10:39 |
kadoosh
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Just to add something that keeps being brought up. At this moment 1:20pm using the new scripts, the following is the Xwis listing:
switching to sort by name here is the list:
How Many Servers with A00 names have 0/?? player counts? If I counted correctly 9 out of the top 18 servers are empty when sorting by name. Meanwhile sort by player count and there's 1 out of the top 18 that has 0 players.
[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 10:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406179 is a reply to message #405549] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 11:03 |
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Goztow
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It's funny that you count the servers with 1 player in it as having players... If you take in account servers with at least 2v2, you'll note that all of them bar one are first page servers... So I think you just made a point.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406184 is a reply to message #406162] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 11:57 |
stoned
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 11:30 |
| stoned wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 15:57 |
I'd say that jelly's statement about this being about getting your pointsfix, pure-strategy server near the top of the listing is rather accurate, yet for pages you continued to claim that this wasn't part of the the objective.
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don't lie, please. everyone on jelly said: you're only doing this because because you want a pointsfix server up there.
this means that deserving projects like the TT ladder server, don't get one purely because jelly says we don't.
but hey, how about i drop the bar?
there are three i just mentioned; jelly has, what, four active servers under the jelly banner? would it be grossly unreasonable for him to keep one a00 name for a jelly server and give one to TT for the use by a server devoted to the new ladder?
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Well, let's see.... Besides the hypocrisy in there and the arrogance to call your TT ladder deserving when it isn't even finalized, quite a few servers have there own ladder (i.e.aow1 has 2 server ladders (of which one works well), mini has one, marathon has one (which works a shitload better compared to yours based on the topic on the jelly forums), and other communities do).
As for the xwis ladder, as you have pointed out, servers that aren't 0 starting creds, pointsfix, etc. will still contribute to your overall, xwis ladder, so there are servers up there contributing to your ladder. The reason for servers like aow1 removing the pointsfix is it dropped the player count, which would mean players in there get less ladder before multipliers (i.e. starting creds) are applied, and that the penalties for larger servers would be offset by the player count, resulting in a negligible difference. One problem solved! Your points for BC and BI are a hell of a lot better then for TT.
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 11:30 |
never mind that for years i was the only person who could be bothered hosting a decent ladder for anybody at all and am now poised doing so for the actual public server ladder.
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Elaborate on how your server was great for ladder and every other server isn't please. Try and remember that your new ladder system didn't exist at that point.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406194 is a reply to message #406179] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 12:48 |
kadoosh
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| Goztow wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 14:03 |
It's funny that you count the servers with 1 player in it as having players... If you take in account servers with at least 2v2, you'll note that all of them bar one are first page servers... So I think you just made a point.
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Yes I do count them cause as has been said People won't sit alone in a server to wait for people. So take it as a point to either way: Oh noes you counted a server with 1 person, or Damn look at that there's a server with someone trying to get others to join.
Ok to suit your point take all the 1s away. that's still 5 out of the top 18 being empty opposed to 9 out of 18 when sorting by name. This could and probably would be different later in the day here. If i'm at my computer i'll check the difference and post them again.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406197 is a reply to message #406110] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 12:56 |
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Crimson
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| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 00:48 |
| Crimson wrote on Wed, 07 October 2009 23:14 |
The BHS(TT) ladder will be official and I have a box of goodies from EA to give as prizes.
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Here I disagree. As Cunin stated before, the current ladder doesnt reward good teamplay. Rather, it rewards pointwhoring.
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If you're not going to read the thread, then don't bother replying. Seriously. ONCE AGAIN, the ladder is being REBALANCED to reward other metrics besides just points. Should I also fax or carrier pigeon this to you, or perhaps tattoo it on your arm?
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 00:48 |
I believe you exonerated yourself...Your explanation that you were simply logging in to our nickname (which crashes the server) to see if the password was changed didnt jive with the fact that you did this at least THIRTY THREE times.
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I'm going to run out of room to tattoo on your arm. But one of the mods here has decided I'm not allowed to talk about it so maybe you'd better go do your own research. There was a perfectly rational explanation for everything given already and accepted by anyone who wasn't already drinking the Faildus koolaid.
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 00:48 |
Also, way to attribute our loss of players to this when the more logical explanation is that school has started and people dont have as much time to play Renegade...Im sure you will find that servers across the board have had a dip in playercount.
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No, I have not seen that. My counts are actually not that different from a year ago, maybe 1 or 2 players average in either direction depending on the week. I keep graphs going back 13 months.
@kadoosh: How far apart were those screen shots? My server is listed at 8 and 12 players... I don't get it.
I'm the bawss.
[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 12:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406207 is a reply to message #406162] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 13:59 |
rcmorr09
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 12:30 |
no, no, no. i am directly (and very clearly) criticising jelly's monopoly at all, the fact that one community with clear bias gets to choose who gets them.
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Yet you have a clear bias for servers running "pure" renegade and would pick your servers accordingly.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406224 is a reply to message #405549] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 15:45 |
kadoosh
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at 6:40pm EST here there are no servers showing empty in the top 18 when sorting with the new scripts.
at 6:40pm EST here there are still 6 servers showing 0 players in the top 18 when sorting by name.
and yeah I forgot to resize the background on the pics so they are rather large and white in most parts
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406228 is a reply to message #406184] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 15:56 |
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Spoony
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Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| stoned wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 13:57 |
Well, let's see.... Besides the hypocrisy in there and the arrogance to call your TT ladder deserving when it isn't even finalized, quite a few servers have there own ladder (i.e.aow1 has 2 server ladders (of which one works well), mini has one, marathon has one (which works a shitload better compared to yours based on the topic on the jelly forums)
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Ah, this would be the one where you can get 100x as much ladder for a game you can't even win than for a 2-minute basekill?
Again, they have their own ladders, good luck to them. I'll repeat the question: Why do they need all the a00 names?
| stoned wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 13:57 |
As for the xwis ladder, as you have pointed out, servers that aren't 0 starting creds, pointsfix, etc. will still contribute to your overall, xwis ladder
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Yep, and I got no end of flaming aimed at me for making yet another concession to the anti-pointsfix crowd, didn't I?
| stoned wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 13:57 |
so there are servers up there contributing to your ladder. The reason for servers like aow1 removing the pointsfix is it dropped the player count, which would mean players in there get less ladder before multipliers (i.e. starting creds) are applied, and that the penalties for larger servers would be offset by the player count, resulting in a negligible difference. One problem solved!
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You're saying the reason TT doesn't deserve even ONE a00 name is because Jelly can't keep its players when the pointsfix is there (or when it's not there, it seems...)
| stoned wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 13:57 |
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 11:30 |
never mind that for years i was the only person who could be bothered hosting a decent ladder for anybody at all and am now poised doing so for the actual public server ladder.
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Elaborate on how your server was great for ladder and every other server isn't please. Try and remember that your new ladder system didn't exist at that point.
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[/quote]
I was talking about the clan ladder.
| Rcmorr09 wrote |
Yet you have a clear bias for servers running "pure" renegade and would pick your servers accordingly.
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No, I said at least one server on the top ought to be "pure" Renegade. This seems quite fair. Just because you're used to the stupid bugged system doesn't mean any new player should be forced to get used to it too when they have a chance of finding out what the real points system was supposed to be. As for bias, perhaps you haven't noticed that Jelly's choices are pretty whimsical?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406248 is a reply to message #405549] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 17:56 |
masterkna
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im kinda curious as to how its your business that jelly has these nick names registered, at the end of the day, he didnt steal from anyone, he took an opportunity that anyone could have done at the time. what business is it of yours spoony that these nick names are all owned by one community? at least he shares them. at least he lets other communities use them.. to be quite fucking honest it seems like a stab in jelly's back to have made this thread..
 | GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 |
Then again, banning anyone for anything automatically makes you a biased prick who shouldn't be a moderator.
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lol
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406258 is a reply to message #406248] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 19:14 |
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Spoony
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Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Gr8mofo1 wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 20:54 |
I think we should start up the petition to remove Spoony from being the spokesperson from TT. I think we need to get EA involved in this. I will start some research and begin to contact some key personal at EA. I think the majority of people are truly tired at Spoony's attempt to try to be the voice of REnegade....
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So let's sum it up.
People complain about the pointsfix. TT goes to incredible lengths to accommodate differing opinions, and eventually gives them everything they want (but they still flame me at every opportunity).
People complain about Jelly's chokehold on the game listings (me certainly not being the first). The Jelly community says: fuck off, there's nothing you can do about it, and you should be punished for daring to criticise our monopoly.
(This is of course the second time Roni's set his mind on going crying to EA. The first time was because someone else had the power and he wanted to decide what should be done with it; the second time is because his camp had the power and someone dared to speak out against it)
I think the point has been well and truly made here. Jelly's made it plain he won't budge an inch. No need to involve EA and XWIS; the Renegade community can see the situation - and the Jelly community - for what it is. The difference between TT and Jelly could scarcely be proven more conclusively than has been proven here.
Thread locked?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406261 is a reply to message #406258] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 19:36 |
masterkna
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 21:14 |
The first time was because someone else had the power and he wanted to decide what should be done with it;
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is this not exactly what you are doing? deciding that someone else should not have something you don't have?
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 |
Then again, banning anyone for anything automatically makes you a biased prick who shouldn't be a moderator.
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lol
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406262 is a reply to message #405549] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 19:36 |
kadoosh
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I have a decent question for you spoony.
You know damn good and well whenever you post something on Jelly's forums you will be flamed. You stand for one of the things they hate, the point fix being the one I'm seeing more than anything else. Yet you continue to post there, or about them. Do you have the right to express an opinion? Hell yes and I will defend your right to this to the death.
The question is, Knowing this why do you subject yourself to it? Why do you intentionally walk into a place where you know your ideas are hated and try to express them? That would be like me walking into a Gay bar and trying to gain supporters on homosexuality being immoral. It's not gonna happen, and I'd probably be shot(just an example, if gay is your way, it's not my place to tell you that your lifestyle should be any different from mine).
Like I said you do have a right to voice your opinion on the situation. They have the right to tell you where to go as well. In the end unless EA or Xwis were to step in it's just talk and no action.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406263 is a reply to message #406258] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 19:55 |
raven
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 21:14 |
Thread locked?
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Good idea, I think this thread has outlived its purpose.
I do have a few questions for you though, Spoony. I will PM them if you don't mind; it's regarding a pointsfix server.
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406266 is a reply to message #406263] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 20:46 |
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papaelbo
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 21:14 |
Thread locked?
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Lol. Hold on sir.
The only thing you have made clear is your true feelings towards the Jelly community and your anger at us for what appears to be refusing to apply the pointfix to our servers - rightly or wrongly, thats how it comes across.
You must admit, you havent been at all open to discussion in this debate. The only time you seemed to calm down a bit was when Jelly offerd to discuss giving you a nick for a pure server. The fact is, you have vehemently stated and restated your original post only evolving to include an actual threat to attack the Jelly community itself.
This was rejected by pretty much everyone but the few who would stand to gain from your "reclaiming" of Jelly's (fair and lawful) aquisition of A00 nicks for his servers (and others).
You opened this can of worms so before you blindly sail off into the sunset, can you explain this to me which i noticed from another thread in the TT section (now locked).
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 03:32 |
Also, what you're doing (all of you ANTIpointfix ppl) is separating the community. This could cause EA not to support this patch. That will mean that people that care will have TT patch, but all the newbies (who would probably better off with TT patch would be stuck in sucky servers without TT patch.
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Now in this thread....
| Spoony wrote on Wed, 07 October 2009 18:20 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Wed, 07 October 2009 18:16 |
Becasue TT is a community built patch and requires almost 100% community support before EA or whoever runs the show, can ever allow it to become a compulsory patch available through the XWIS patcher.
If you went and made every single change mandatory (and im talking about the things that affect established gameplay), for example, the pointsfix, the community split would make TT as a compulsory and automatically downloaded patch impossible, and therefore obsolete.
Therefore, you HAVE TO compromise or the project fails.
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Untrue. Firstly, we've already gotten that from EA. Secondly, the number of people who vehemently oppose the pointsfix is actually a very small minority. Sure it's a majority over at JELLY, but in the whole of Renegade, it's a definite minority.
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I never did see any announcement from TT saying they had acquired approval from EA to patch renegade let alone manage the XWIS listings. So, which is it? Do TT have authority to apply a global patch to Renegade or is that still under negotiation?
If you dont have any authority from EA then why do you feel the need to question Jelly's position in public and thereby assassinate the charater of our community by expressing your "opinions"?
Also, it was stated on this thread that the original polls on the pointsfix were split 50/50. As that is the sole source of evidence for a "world" opinion on the pointsfix, then i could claim just as clearly that the anti-pointfix group are not in the minority. The fact is, neither of us are correct due to lack of evidence.
Sure, i will accept more Jelly people are against the pointsfix but who is to say that isnt representative of the wider community considering the unscientific 50/50 poll.
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