Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The Pointsfix and the Game Listings
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405612 is a reply to message #405609] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 08:55   |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:50 |
hahaha spoonys not happy because someone else has more renepower than him. jelly can keep his server names, and u can keep ur -50% on ur ladder to even the scale.
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You = idiot.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405615 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 09:18 |
Jellybe4n
Messages: 409
Registered: August 2004
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If we ran the point fix still this topic wouldn't have been made, because your precious "fix" would be in use.
It's yet another tool people will try to use against me.
I can't be arsed with some e-drama. All I will say is you can fuck off. I thought you knew me a little better than to go about things this way.
I aint getting into some debate, it's pointless and been recycled more than I can remember.
Good luck with your crusade against me.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405617 is a reply to message #405608] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 09:45 |
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tellsson
Messages: 107
Registered: May 2009
Location: Melmac
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| so say we all. wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:34 |
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 |
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 |
There is no special reason why they deserve this. Anybody could have gotten there first. We can, if we
like, speculate who else was trying to do the same thing at the time, or what would have happened if they got there five
minutes before Jelly did.
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well, they didnt. Jelly was faster and so he deserve it. its like in real life, the one who is faster get the better place/wins.
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k, so let's say TT had the ability to patch the game JUST BECAUSE EA said "first person to post here gets to take over the renegade patcher", and crimson got the first post.
let's then say TT said: pointsfix will be compulsory and we're also gonna patch the game to make that totally unchangeable.
according to your 'logic', there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with TT doing that. the decision would be completely TT's and they wouldn't have to explain it to anybody, because they got there first, case closed.
if you think it ISN'T ok for TT to do that just because they got there first (which is, of course, not the case anyway), then perhaps you're beginning to see why it's not OK for Jelly to do the same.
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nice hypotheses, but still, fact is: JELLY WAS FASTER.
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How does that refute the fact that its unfair?
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Anybody could have gotten there first.
So what is unfair about that jelly was faster then all others??
Imagine that: a race. Some1 wins and earns the prize. What is unfair about that?
| so say we all. wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:34 |
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 |
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 |
Now, Jelly himself is my friend, and I will admit that there are many people who could have abused this situation far more.
But that does not change anything.
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so, you wanna say jelly did abuse it?
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I don't need to. Even if he used it to the best of his fairness, it's still power he shouldn't have.
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You did! "who could have abused this situation FAR MORE." Imo that means that he did
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He's not saying he didnt, he's saying that it doesnt matter if he did, because his point would still stand either way.
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Isnt it jelly`s right to do whatever he wants with his servers? Like i said, every other community had the same rights, but jelly was faster.
| so say we all. wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:34 |
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 |
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 |
Now, even though the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost every single debate on the subject AND has been caught using the most
appalling tactics imaginable
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nice lie! The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod.
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uh no, i said if you can't even explain why the flawed, unintended system is better and have it stand up to debate - and nobody has done that - you've no right to make sure it continues to impose the same bad habits onto new players, and stunt their skills in the same way yours have been.
and, of course, no rebuttal to "AND has been caught using the most appalling tactics imaginable"... but then, you can get away with the most extraordinary bullshit so long as you're against the pointsfix.
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The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod. Do you really think i shouldnt defend my "home" against a modification wich kills "my home"?
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It's a valid reason to make an argument about large parts of j1 players being stubborn people alright. Not that I care if they are, its their server.
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You`re right, its our server.
I wonder how you would act if a modification empties the server where you played for ages.
You could see that it`s clearly the modification wich kills your favourite server. And you`d accept that?
Greetz telly ^^
and for the rest, read td`s and jellys post.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 09:47] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405624 is a reply to message #405607] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 10:21 |
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Prulez
Messages: 439
Registered: August 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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| Ethenal wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:30 |
Maybe someone's said it already, but a00 nicknames won't matter once TT's released; current (and naturally later) versions of scripts.dll sort servers by playercount, not nickname. And once TT is pushed to everyone, that entirely eliminates the problem.
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THIS.
| nikki6ixx wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 19:47 |
Every so often, I get this positive feeling that humanity can somehow, possibly attain pure awesomeness, and enlightenment, and that there is light at the end of the road for us all. However, I only need to go to the latest HUD thread at RenForums to remind me of how dumb I was for thinking such stupid things.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405628 is a reply to message #405603] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
You did! "who could have abused this situation FAR MORE." Imo that means that he did
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Surth understands my point. I don't NEED to say he abused it. My point stands whether he abused it or not.
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod. Do you really think i shouldnt defend my "home" against a modification wich kills "my home"?
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Sure it's enough for you to choose to use the pointsbug in your server. But when the same community has a stranglehold on the game listings, there's a problem.
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
this all was changes wich made the game better for the players.
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And so it's not really about what the "original" game was like, so you've defeated your own argument.
| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
no. I`m a jelly community member for ages, and so my "heart beats for the jelly-community".
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Ah. So when you said you were pro-community, what you meant was the wishes of the Jelly community, valid or not, trump everyone else's?
| simpee wrote |
hahaha spoonys not happy because someone else has more renepower than him. jelly can keep his server names, and u can keep ur -50% on ur ladder to even the scale.
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That doesn't even the scale. My ladder isn't a monopoly over Renegade. Anyone else can make a ladder, it's not my fault nobody else can be bothered. That's not the same as a monopoly. Don't equate the two.
| Jelly wrote |
It's yet another tool people will try to use against me.
I can't be arsed with some e-drama. All I will say is you can fuck off. I thought you knew me a little better than to go about things this way.
I aint getting into some debate, it's pointless and been recycled more than I can remember.
Good luck with your crusade against me.
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Go about things what way? Disagree with your monopoly? If you can disagree with the perceived notion that I want to force the pointsfix on your server (which is untrue), then I can disagree with your monopoly on the game listings. This is not a crusade against you.
Anyway, we now have our answer, and we can now make another comparison between TT and jelly.
question 1: how did TT respond to people disagreeing with the pointsfix?
answer: TT went to INCREDIBLE lengths to engage them in debate, find out what they thought and why. made an extraordinary
effort to post all the arguments and evidence for the pointsfix (none of which have been refuted), and comported themselves
with infinitely more civility than the people arguing against them.
suggested several compromises between the two positions, all of which were violently rejected by the anti-pointsfix crowd.
eventually said: ok, we'll give you everything you want (well, not quite everything; they also wanted the ability to say
"spoony should not be allowed to choose whether to use the pointsfix in his own community", but any fool can see that's
asking too much... sadly a great many people on the anti-pointsfix crowd don't seem to be on the intellectual level of a
fool)
and of course, TT and I still get the shit flamed out of us at every turn, despite giving these kiddies everything they
wanted (which is exactly, EXACTLY what i predicted would happen)
question 2: how did the jelly community respond to people disagreeing with their undeserved monopoly on the game listings?
answer: "All I will say is you can fuck off."
if anybody says the situation should not change, you're basically saying jelly is better qualified to control the game
listings than TT... and given the difference between TT and Jelly here, I just don't see how anybody can seriously think that.
the strongest argument in support of jelly's monopoly has been posted by tellsson.
| tellsson wrote |
Anybody could have gotten there first.
So what is unfair about that jelly was faster then all others??
Imagine that: a race. Some1 wins and earns the prize. What is unfair about that?
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| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
nice hypotheses, but still, fact is: JELLY WAS FASTER.
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here's what this means.
let's reduce TT to jelly's level and say: imagine TT has the patch authority because crimson "got there first" (which is
of course untrue, but let's make the situations equal).
let's say TT did decide: pointsfix is compulsory, and we will make it so there is no way to reverse this.
TT can simply say: "TT does deserve this authority because we got there first, case closed. get used to it." or, to borrow Jelly's words, "All I will say is you can fuck off."
so, jelly community, which way do you want to have it? there are two options. the red pill and the blue pill.
1. jelly keeps its monopoly on the game lists. if so, TT can if they choose just say: "pointsfix for everybody, nothing you can do about it"... in other words, acting the same way jelly is.
2. if you try to argue that TT shouldn't say that (and you have), you can't keep your monopoly on the game lists.
give the a00 names to TT.
pick one.
and this works even when you reduce TT's claim to authority to the level of jelly's, "we got there first". TT's claim is
of course much stronger than that.
and, TT has gone to incredible lengths to deal with people who disagree, no matter how pathetically they try to advance
their case. jelly has not budged an inch on this, ever. how about the anti-pointsfix crowd be reasonable, for the very
first time? you've never done it before, but you might find it actually works.
so, jelly community, perhaps you'd like to try to put forth a better argument, because if you can't do better than this,
it's clear the a00 situation can - and should - be rectified. immediately. don't worry, you'll keep one a00 name (even
though you've had the chokehold long enough that you hardly still need one). we'll even say you can keep the top one, eh?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 10:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405629 is a reply to message #405627] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 10:37 |
Hitman
Messages: 878
Registered: November 2005
Location: Belgium
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| stoned wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:36 |
If I wanted to make the name "Spoony" on renegade would I have as much a right to it as spoony does? After all, why should he get the name just because he registered it first!
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405633 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 10:46 |
raven
Messages: 595
Registered: January 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Colonel |
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Or.. we can keep all of them because they're our nicks. Jelly will assign them as he sees fit, period. What gives TT the right to Jelly's nicks? Nothing. That'd be saying like what gives me the right to my raven nickname, even though I registered it first... uhh, clearly I registered it first therefore it's my nick
Like someone said before, this is all a moot point when the patch is released, and is already a moot point for those who use 3.4.4, go debate something of real importance rather than something that personally bothers you. It clearly does or you wouldn't spend so much of your time debating pointless things like this.
Kindly fuck off and take your pointsfix with you.
Respectfully yours 
r.
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405635 is a reply to message #405634] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 10:48 |
raven
Messages: 595
Registered: January 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Colonel |
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| kadoosh wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 12:47 |
I have a question, Are the server names tied to a serial key? or are they like our log on names where I can log on any instance renegade with a correct name and password?
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They're tied to a serial for purposes of resetting passwords. Other than that, it doesn't matter what serial you're using for logging in.
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405636 is a reply to message #405633] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 10:52 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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Raven, I appreciate you proving my point about the difference between TT and Jelly; namely how TT goes to such incredible lengths to accommodate people who disagree with us, yet the Jelly community just says "fuck off, it's our decision, get used to it" and insults me for even bringing it up.
Here's what Jelly said on the jelly forum about this...
| Jelly wrote |
People who play here like it, we don't abuse anyone, we moderate well.
We provide a good service to the people who play here. Just because we stopped to run your points fix you spat your dummy and looked for an angle, and found it in your eyes.
We're the only community who actively tries to organise community games on a regular basis, we organise internal tournamnets, we organise 2v2 tournaments. We try to keep people interested in the game and keep ut fun. Yet you choose to publically attack us because we don't like the "fix"? Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you dude?
I've no need to defend myself here or on the renforums, and as I said there, you can seriously fuck right off now.
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As you can see, there's absolutely nothing in here defending Jelly's monopoly on the game listings. Just changes the subject and says two things
1. jelly servers are great
2. spoony is "publicly attacking us because we don't like the pointsfix"
point 1: jelly servers are great. i'm not saying otherwise right now. total subject change.
point 2 is the real lunacy. if i disagree with jelly's monopoly, and if i made a pretty good case why it's wrong, i'm "publicly attacking us because we don't like the pointsfix". so not only do you maintain your monopoly, the power you seized in the first place, you belittle legitimate criticism of it. this makes your side weaker, not stronger.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405639 is a reply to message #405635] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:00 |
kadoosh
Messages: 90
Registered: April 2004
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Recruit |
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| raven wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:48 |
| kadoosh wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 12:47 |
I have a question, Are the server names tied to a serial key? or are they like our log on names where I can log on any instance renegade with a correct name and password?
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They're tied to a serial for purposes of resetting passwords. Other than that, it doesn't matter what serial you're using for logging in.
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I'm just trying to get facts here so bare with me.
Was it durring the WOL -> Xwis change that these names were registered?
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405640 is a reply to message #405637] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:01 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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I certainly appreciate the people running the show at Jelly making their side weaker and weaker with every post.
I've done nothing wrong to upset any of you. Legitimate criticism of your undeserved monopoly on Renegade's game listings doesn't count - if you can criticise TT out of fear that we're imposing the pointsfix on you (which isn't true, of course), you can't say I can't criticise your chokehold on the game listings.
And yet your best reply is "fuck off". I don't think many people still thought Jelly community was qualified to manage the a00 listings (something I myself thought a while ago, which is why I defended chris against fl00d3d, for example), but if anybody still does, they can just look at this thread, and compare Jelly's reaction to criticism to the way TT reacted to criticism of the pointsfix (i.e. going to incredible lengths to debate the subject, suggesting lots and lots of compromises all of which were violently rejected, then simply agreeing to give the anti-pointsfix crowd everything they asked for). This is a night-and-day difference.
I think that if we showed EA, and Olaf, this thread and the Jelly admins' replies to it, it would be pretty easy to get their support. I think my original post did a pretty good job of making the case, but Jelly's replies pretty much close it. Here's an idea, Jelly... if you give up without a further fight, we'll make sure you keep the top name. Otherwise how about we go to EA and XWIS and see what they think about recycling the names and giving TT control of them? And if that happens, TT will run them fairly, I promise you, and give them out where they deserve. Before I made this thread I was convinced the Jelly community did deserve one (but not more than one). After reading the replies, I'm not so sure.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 11:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405643 is a reply to message #405640] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:12 |
raven
Messages: 595
Registered: January 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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There's clearly something you aren't understanding or you just don't want to accept. We do not have to give up our nicks to TT for any reason whatsoever. It would be a different situation if we didn't use all of them, I agree. All the nicknames are though, some are even loaned to n00bstories, n00bless, and Exodus. Sure, there are some more deserving communities, but they got the short end of the straw. Sure it's unfortunate that others didn't register the nicks at the start of XWIS, but that's how it is and that's how it has been for several years. The truth of the matter is, no matter where your server is on the game listings, it will get players if it's a good server. Sit idle in any server for a few minutes and you'll get at least one more player to join, no matter where it is. If it's a good server, they will come back. If not, tough shit.
You can hardly compare TT to Jelly. Jelly is a gaming community, TT is an elitist group of "respected" (note the quotations) and knowledgeable people chosen to create a patch for the game we all love. Governance of the game should not come into play. No one governs Renegade.
How about TT sticks to what it's meant to do, create the patch and that's it? No one has the right to the nickname other than the creator which is Jelly. That's it.
Soviet Union, anyone?
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405644 is a reply to message #405640] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:18 |
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Prulez
Messages: 439
Registered: August 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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Commander |
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:01 |
I've done nothing wrong to upset any of you.
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Except for starting a crusade, nope.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:01 |
Legitimate criticism
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Yes
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:01 |
of your undeserved monopoly on Renegade's game listings doesn't count
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No. Please elaborate where this is undeserved. I have skipped reading most of this thread, but I am curious how you will explain to me how Jelly would not be allowed to have the hostnames, because Jelly was the first to register it!
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:01 |
if you can criticise TT out of fear that we're imposing the pointsfix on you (which isn't true, of course), you can't say I can't criticise your chokehold on the game listings.
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Jelly and it's community appears to be against the pointfix. Sure, you can criticise Jelly's a00 nicknames, but you're throwing in false assumptions, like where it is undeserved and all.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:01 |
I don't think many people still thought Jelly community was qualified to manage the a00 listings
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Since when did Jelly start MANAGING the a00 listings? I thoguth XWIS was managing the server listings?
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:01 |
but if anybody still does, they can just look at this thread, and compare Jelly's reaction to criticism to the way TT reacted to criticism of the pointsfix (i.e. going to incredible lengths to debate the subject, suggesting lots and lots of compromises all of which were violently rejected, then simply agreeing to give the anti-pointsfix crowd everything they asked for).
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This is like comparing a cow and a horse. Want me to explain?
- Jelly has the right to own that nickname simply because he was the first to register it. It is his nickname and it will stay that way, unless Jelly (The Owner) decides to give it away.
See it like a domain name, if I registered a000000.com, and Someone would be like LUL I WANT IT BCUZ U UNFAIR, what would give him the right to claim it? I was the first to register it, so it's my right to keep it as I see fit.
- The Pointfix on the other hand is not a domain name and not a first come first serve thing. It's simply a mod the server owners can choose to run. Just like a commander plugin, a veteran plugin, donate, ctf, etc, etc. It changes gameplay.
Clearly, the pointsfix is right. There, I've said it. The arguments for it make sense. Though, isn't it the right of the server owners to do with it what they want? My co-op server was running a plugin where you could be buying credits in exchange for points. You can alter points. Would you disallow those aswell? Isn't it up to the server owner how they run their server and WHAT they run at their server? Isn't it up to the player to choose what server they like, what gamemode they like, and what server they play in? You can choose yourself to stop joining the server without the pointfix.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:01 |
I think that if we showed EA, and Olaf, this thread and the Jelly admins' replies to it, it would be pretty easy to get their support. I think my original post did a pretty good job of making the case, but Jelly's replies pretty much close it.
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I think you should get off your high horse. Maybe half of the community is pro-pointfix and half is against it. (Just pulling statistics out of my ass, don't get me wrong!) Doesn't EA wish to see FULL community support? So.. giving them the option to put it on/off would satisfy everyone.. right? Everyone can choose what they like, case closed.
| nikki6ixx wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 19:47 |
Every so often, I get this positive feeling that humanity can somehow, possibly attain pure awesomeness, and enlightenment, and that there is light at the end of the road for us all. However, I only need to go to the latest HUD thread at RenForums to remind me of how dumb I was for thinking such stupid things.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405645 is a reply to message #405640] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:19 |
Cunin
Messages: 87
Registered: April 2007
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Recruit |
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| Crimson |
We are most likely going to penalize but not remove servers from participating in the official ladder for keeping the bugged points system.
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That is showing a lack of respect for people's opinions, the same lack of respect that you (spoony) show everytime you reply to anyone which do not agree with you.
So no, I can't see how the TT team could be better than Jelly at managing server nicks, seeing how much some of you care about anyone's opinion, and how much some of your team members plays fair.
We'll have one single entity that has proven to have members which only does their own interests and that can't listen to people's needs, dictating and having full decisional power to what's left of Renegade.
no thanks.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405646 is a reply to message #405644] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:38 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:18 |
Except for starting a crusade, nope.
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Crusade? You have an unchallengeable, undeserved monopoly on the game listings, and if I post legitimate criticism of it (and the admins react in the violent and unreasonable way they have), this makes me the bad guy?
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:18 |
No. Please elaborate where this is undeserved. I have skipped reading most of this thread, but I am curious how you will explain to me how Jelly would not be allowed to have the hostnames, because Jelly was the first to register it!
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Duhhh, because Jelly has registered ALL the top listings, so when you log in all you see is the Jelly servers and the servers Jelly currently favours. And, yet again, this means any new server has no hope of drawing players.
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:18 |
Since when did Jelly start MANAGING the a00 listings? I thoguth XWIS was managing the server listings?
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They say who gets all the a00 names. They say who's top on the game listings. They say: all our servers go right at the top, and our friends come next, and if you cross us we'll take the name back, and if you don't like it you can fuck off.
This is totalitarianism on a scale that dwarfs anything you can say about TT.
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:18 |
- Jelly has the right to own that nickname simply because he was the first to register it. It is his nickname and it will stay that way, unless Jelly (The Owner) decides to give it away.
See it like a domain name, if I registered a000000.com, and Someone would be like LUL I WANT IT BCUZ U UNFAIR, what would give him the right to claim it? I was the first to register it, so it's my right to keep it as I see fit.
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But in this case, you'd be registering MILLIONS of domain names, which meant that anyone trying to start a website would have to get your permission or it would have no chance of succeeding.
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:18 |
The Pointfix on the other hand is not a domain name and not a first come first serve thing. It's simply a mod the server owners can choose to run. Just like a commander plugin, a veteran plugin, donate, ctf, etc, etc. It changes gameplay.
Clearly, the pointsfix is right. There, I've said it. The arguments for it make sense. Though, isn't it the right of the server owners to do with it what they want? My co-op server was running a plugin where you could be buying credits in exchange for points. You can alter points. Would you disallow those aswell? Isn't it up to the server owner how they run their server and WHAT they run at their server? Isn't it up to the player to choose what server they like, what gamemode they like, and what server they play in? You can choose yourself to stop joining the server without the pointfix.
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Of course. TT agrees with this position, and so do I. (Although, many people on the anti-pointsfix side actually DO NOT agree with this position - they violently disagreed with my right to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league, which instantly destroys their creidibility)
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:18 |
I think you should get off your high horse. Maybe half of the community is pro-pointfix and half is against it. (Just pulling statistics out of my ass, don't get me wrong!) Doesn't EA wish to see FULL community support? So.. giving them the option to put it on/off would satisfy everyone.. right? Everyone can choose what they like, case closed.
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No, it's not case closed, because Jelly keeps its monopoly over the game listings.
I'm not saying TT is about to say: "ok, we're gonna pull a jelly here, pointsfix is compulsory and if you don't like it you can fuck off". I'm saying that IF WE DID, you would see how wrong it was. Jelly does the same with the game listings (indeed WORSE, because jelly's claim to the a00 names is much weaker than TT's patching authority), and it seems like you can't see how wrong THAT is. Why not? It benefits you.
| raven wrote |
There's clearly something you aren't understanding or you just don't want to accept. We do not have to give up our nicks to TT for any reason whatsoever.
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raven, the difference between TT and Jelly has already been made very clear. i.e. TT goes to incredible lengths to accommodate those who disagree, while Jelly just says "fuck off, it's ours, get used to it". It's OK, this point has already been made.
| raven wrote |
It would be a different situation if we didn't use all of them, I agree. All the nicknames are though, some are even loaned to n00bstories, n00bless, and Exodus. Sure, there are some more deserving communities, but they got the short end of the straw.
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Worthless statement; the choice of who gets them is entirely the Jelly community's.
| raven wrote |
The truth of the matter is, no matter where your server is on the game listings, it will get players if it's a good server. Sit idle in any server for a few minutes and you'll get at least one more player to join, no matter where it is. If it's a good server, they will come back. If not, tough shit.
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I used to think this. (this is why I defended chris against fl00d3d). I was proven wrong. SpoonySrv. I briefly had an a00 name for that, and while I did, it was always full. A while later the name was taken back, and it was always empty. And yet nobody, nobody had a problem with the server. There was no criticism about the way it was run. (I can give you plenty of criticisms against the jelly servers if you like?)
I know now better. You don't, because you've never needed to know; the situation benefits you and so you can't see the problem.
| raven wrote |
You can hardly compare TT to Jelly.
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That's right. I feel rather dirty when I compared TT to Jelly; it's incredibly unfair to TT.
TT actually deserved the authority it wants to use, Jelly doesn't.
TT defends itself from criticism by going to incredible lengths to accommodate those who disagree. Jelly just tells them to fuck off.
This is a night-and-day difference.
| raven wrote |
Jelly is a gaming community
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if this is all you are, start acting like it. give up your monopoly on the game listings.
| Cunin wrote |
| Quote: |
Crimson
We are most likely going to penalize but not remove servers from participating in the official ladder for keeping the bugged points system.
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That is showing a lack of respect for people's opinions, the same lack of respect that you (spoony) show everytime you reply to anyone which do not agree with you.
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Actually, crimson's post shows nothing of the sort. As for lack of respect for anyone who disagrees, you might want to objectively compare my posts replying to criticism of the pointsfix, against jelly's posts replying to criticism of the a00 situation. Again, it's a night-and-day difference.
| Cunin wrote |
So no, I can't see how the TT team could be better than Jelly at managing server nicks
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Then you haven't been reading this thread very carefully.
| Cunin wrote |
We'll have one single entity that has proven to have members which only does their own interests and that can't listen to people's needs, dictating and having full decisional power to what's left of Renegade.
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We already do. It's called the Jelly community. It wouldn't be the same if TT gained control of the a00 names.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405647 is a reply to message #405636] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:39 |
Alfonzo
Messages: 12
Registered: June 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 12:52 |
Raven, I appreciate you proving my point about the difference between TT and Jelly; namely how TT goes to such incredible lengths to accommodate people who disagree with us, yet the Jelly community just says "fuck off, it's our decision, get used to it" and insults me for even bringing it up.
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Are you serious? Far more people agree to not have the point fix, so Jelly does not implement the pointfix. They accommodated their players wishes. If more people wanted the pointfix, I guarantee it would be on his servers..
Jelly owns the names, no one has the right to take them away.
Jelly also owns his servers, and can do what he pleases (which is usually what the players want)-- TT does not own Renegade, and can not just take all of HIS names.
Mike
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405648 is a reply to message #405558] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:40 |
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Hex
Messages: 858
Registered: March 2004
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 11:05 |
I rather think you do. Please post a brief list of all the renegade communities in which you are a admin/moderator?
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me, I own n00bless, I also use the 003 nick and before you do your 'oh so thats why your saying this' you should know that 90% of my players are game spy users.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 11:05 |
Firstly it matters now. Secondly can you explain for everyone exactly what "will" happen about server nicks? Be specific, please.
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I love the way you answer a question with a question so how about you answer my question instead of avoiding it like you always seem to do.
| Ghostshaw wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:08 |
Bypassing pointsfix will take quite a bit more then a few hours to bypass since you need to reverse a good deal of the damage chain...
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It's a good job that we (at n00bless) already have this 
| Ghostshaw wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:08 |
Bypassing pointsfix will take quite a bit more then a few hours to bypass since you need to reverse a good deal of the damage chain...
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No std::'s?!? (sory had to!  )
| Goztow wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:55 |
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:50 |
hahaha spoonys not happy because someone else has more renepower than him. jelly can keep his server names, and u can keep ur -50% on ur ladder to even the scale.
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You = idiot.
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Remember, this is renforums, more idiots than renegade players
| Someone on IRC |
so, he claims the names were seized, implying that is bad, then he suggests they be seized, implying that would be good
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Sums it up?
Spoony, have you ever considered that you get abuse because you're repetitive?
| goztow wrote on Tue, 11 May 2010 08:00 |
If we had to ban all who ever cheated or ever created a cheat (obj3cts and such) then I don't think there would be many members left here (sad fact).
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| reborn wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 23:37 |
std is for pro's.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405649 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:45 |
raven
Messages: 595
Registered: January 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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We've got 5 spots on the front page. The others we've loaned out. Why don't you go after nightma12 or someone who has about 10 nicks that are front page'rs? He's got a larger monopoly than Jelly does.
You also said in a thread on Jelly that you wanted to start a server, but you'd need an a00 nick. This doesn't have anything to do with why you're starting this topic, does it? For your own personal gain
Edit: Spelling
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 11:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405650 is a reply to message #405648] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:49 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Mike |
Are you serious? Far more people agree to not have the point fix, so Jelly does not implement the pointfix. They accommodated their players wishes. If more people wanted the pointfix, I guarantee it would be on his servers..
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No problem. Everyone at TT is fine with this. This needs to be repeated over and over and over again, apparently...
| Mike |
Jelly owns the names, no one has the right to take them away.
TT does not own Renegade, and can not just take all of HIS names.
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Unfortunately Jelly took ALL the names, which specifically meant he would have the sole, unchallengeable right to choose whose servers you see when you log on.
TT doesn't own Renegade, indeed. Yet its claim to authority is much better than Jelly's. Who owns Renegade? EA and XWIS seem to be the authorities here... shall we show them both this thread and see what they say?
| Hex wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 11:05 |
I rather think you do. Please post a brief list of all the renegade communities in which you are a admin/moderator?
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me, I own n00bless, I also use the 003 nick and before you do your 'oh so thats why your saying this' you should know that 90% of my players are game spy users.
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Doesn't change anything at all, you're still benefiting from the situation, which reduces your credibility when you say it isn't a problem.
| Hex wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 11:05 |
Firstly it matters now. Secondly can you explain for everyone exactly what "will" happen about server nicks? Be specific, please.
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I love the way you answer a question with a question so how about you answer my question instead of avoiding it like you always seem to do.
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I've asked more than once for you to explain exactly what will happen to the game listings. I simply don't know, and I don't think I'm the only one. You claim to know, so why don't you tell everybody right now? If you've evasive about this, then don't act like you ended the debate by saying "scripts will fix this"
| Hex wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:40 |
| Someone on IRC |
so, he claims the names were seized, implying that is bad, then he suggests they be seized, implying that would be good
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Sums it up?
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It is true. The names WERE seized by an individual community, that has no greater claim upon them than any other renegade community. I am suggesting they be taken over by a group that has actually earned the trust of EA and XWIS, and that will be committed to using them fairly, without bias, and without the appalling reaction to criticism we have seen in this thread from the Jelly admins. TT's reaction to criticism has been impeccable compared to this.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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