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Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 15:14 Go to next message
jonwil is currently offline  jonwil
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GrimmNL wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 21:59

oh wow, that's quite the list there. one question though.
jonwil wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 08:43

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Fix bug where damage code miscalculates points in some cases
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does that mean 'the' pointfix?

anyway, keep up the good work http://www.renegadeforums.com/images/message_icons/icon14.gif

Yes, it does mean 'the' pointfix.


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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404620 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KobraOps is currently offline  KobraOps
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Spoony wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 17:29



finally in regard to the pointsfix, how exactly will this work in regard to servers that don't want to use it?


I think servers that run RR can calculate points the way they want to because Atomix does all you need is the proper scripts.
The only reason the "pointsfix" will cause a problem is because people that play clanwars put alot of strategy into playing w/o it. (E.g. Shooting harvy, sniping stanks, tank fighting(not 100% sure this is effected though))
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404646 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
InternetThug is currently offline  InternetThug
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no pointsfix mandatory please...this patch could have one function...disable *cheat name removed*and ban anyone from renegade that tries to load it...and it would save the game
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404648 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If it takes over a year extra to add Linux support.. there's something horribly wrong with the way you're coding it.

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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404650 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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Quote:

The pointsfix, for now its mandatory (and as far as I know it will remain so during the beta test cycle of 4.0)

why are you going back on what was said before with the pointmod going to be a serverside option? it's clearly a bug but people seem to like the option of playing bugged renegade, so don't just take that away from them after 7+ years of playing it that way

we've been through this many times


liquidv2
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404651 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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no points fix just fix da good stuff

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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404656 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nope.avi is currently offline  nope.avi
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No pointsfix plz, nobody wants it.

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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404659 is a reply to message #404650] Wed, 30 September 2009 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Homey is currently offline  Homey
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 22:27

Quote:

The pointsfix, for now its mandatory (and as far as I know it will remain so during the beta test cycle of 4.0)

why are you going back on what was said before with the pointmod going to be a serverside option? it's clearly a bug but people seem to like the option of playing bugged renegade, so don't just take that away from them after 7+ years of playing it that way

we've been through this many times


Hi, yeah.


Homey
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404662 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
c4onyou8 is currently offline  c4onyou8
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no ptsfx plz
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404667 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 20:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ethenal is currently offline  Ethenal
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nope, no points fix.

-TLS-DJ-EYE-K wrote on Mon, 18 March 2013 07:29

Instead of showing us that u aren't more inteligent than a Toast, maybe you should start becomming good in renegade Thumbs Up

Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404669 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nikki6ixx is currently offline  nikki6ixx
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Although I support pointsfix, making it mandatory is just asking for trouble. Can't it just be on as a default, and be able to be switched off if a community desires?

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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404671 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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I wonder if people realize that the majority of Renegaders are either unaware of the points problem still or want pointsfix, that new players wouldn't understand the problem, and that the people who complain about it needing to stay the same are what I like to call a "vast minority" (AKA, they seem vast but they're still a minority).

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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404673 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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after having played in it for a solid year and a half i will tell you now that it doesn't make it easier for new players; if anything it makes it even harder, and the only people that seem to do well are the people who know what they're doing in general

the problem is the vast majority of current renegade players are not good enough to succeed with the pointmod in place, and having the bugged system on seems to keep games closer and less nod-favored as a whole


liquidv2
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404676 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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jonwil wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 22:44

What I said is that the pointsfix is currently mandatory

it wasn't, so why did you change your mind?


liquidv2
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404679 is a reply to message #404673] Wed, 30 September 2009 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 22:40

it doesn't make it easier for new players; if anything it makes it even harder, and the only people that seem to do well are the people who know what they're doing in general

i personally think that's ridiculous... a new player who is unaware of the fact you can get money for no reason might be inclined to try earning money by doing something useful, whereas i can make a long list of people who consider themselves "good players" who honestly are convinced that if there's an APC/meds/lights/whatever threatening your base, then the best thing to do is shoot it ineffectually and can't imagine themselves thinking otherwise.

just because a lot of "good players" aren't capable of throwing off the bad habits that the pointsbug has taught them (which does rather undermine the claim to be a good player, in my view), doesn't mean new players ought to be indoctrinated into the same bad habits too...


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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404680 is a reply to message #404650] Wed, 30 September 2009 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rcmorr09 is currently offline  rcmorr09
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 22:27

Quote:

The pointsfix, for now its mandatory (and as far as I know it will remain so during the beta test cycle of 4.0)

why are you going back on what was said before with the pointmod going to be a serverside option? it's clearly a bug but people seem to like the option of playing bugged renegade, so don't just take that away from them after 7+ years of playing it that way

we've been through this many times




What this guy said ^^^
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404681 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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the fact that they couldn't get money to get anything made them leave even sooner than they would have had they been able to gain it by attacking healthy vehicles by any means

i'm not one of the players who can't handle the pointmod; i fully understand it and can play with it on no problem, but from my experiences it's not the same story with many if not most other players

why do you think servers like st0rm have so many players in them all the time? you join with 1000 starting credits, the harvester dumps 600 or 700 credits, and the mine limit is 127...people like being able to buy and use things, and the pointmod makes it harder to get things and new players tend to get discouraged and go somewhere else

if everyone knew how renegade worked and knew how to play i'm sure the pointmod would work a lot better than i've seen it work (example being in community matches)


liquidv2
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404683 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jonwil is currently offline  jonwil
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I am not saying it will remain mandatory, just that right now in our current development build it is mandatory.
If and when an option to turn it off is added is a decision that we (as in TT) have not yet made and such a decision will be made in consultation with the server owners (since its the server owners who will be deciding whether they want the pointsfix on their servers)


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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404684 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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then you lied to everyone about it because you said from the very start that it would be optional, not that you "may" decide later to make it optional, which is complete horseshit

liquidv2
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404685 is a reply to message #404684] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:00

the fact that they couldn't get money to get anything made them leave even sooner than they would have had they been able to gain it by attacking healthy vehicles by any means

i'm not one of the players who can't handle the pointmod; i fully understand it and can play with it on no problem, but from my experiences it's not the same story with many if not most other players

why do you think servers like st0rm have so many players in them all the time? you join with 1000 starting credits, the harvester dumps 600 or 700 credits, and the mine limit is 127...people like being able to buy and use things, and the pointmod makes it harder to get things and new players tend to get discouraged and go somewhere else

if everyone knew how renegade worked and knew how to play i'm sure the pointmod would work a lot better than i've seen it work (example being in community matches)


Oh, ok, let's put in an ineffective, illogical way of earning money early game that will confuse new players, rather than suggesting another, more logical approach to how new players can earn money early game.

Makes sense.

also

liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:09

then you lied to everyone about it because you said from the very start that it would be optional, not that you "may" decide later to make it optional, which is complete horseshit


If I recall, they said they "might make it optional, but nothing's solid". Infact, I rarely recall the TT team saying anything's 100% solid...


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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404686 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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oh, ok, it doesn't make sense, and it hasn't made sense for 7 years, but people seem to like it and have for 7 years
so why change it now? i've watched it drive new players out of the server because there was even less they could do, and i've watched new players cluster around the st0rm servers like insects near a bright light

are you telling me there's absolutely no correlation?


liquidv2
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404687 is a reply to message #404683] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jonwil wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:07

If and when an option to turn it off is added is a decision that we (as in TT) have not yet made

um... yes it is made actually, both mac and myself have agreed that it ought to be optional.

certainly the pointsfix can replace the current state as the default points system, but there ought to be an option, even if it's something as simple as somebody making a "reverse pointsfix" to download and install, which would just re-create the original bug.


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Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404690 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rcmorr09 is currently offline  rcmorr09
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I just like the way renegade plays now better and I see no reason to force the fix onto everyone.
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404691 is a reply to message #404614] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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if it makes people happy then what's the harm in letting them keep it? just stay out of those servers if you can't stand getting points for shooting a harvester or sniping a mammoth tank, but don't deny players the option of having a silly points system that keeps them happy

it's already been that way for over 7 years, so why not?


liquidv2
Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404692 is a reply to message #404686] Wed, 30 September 2009 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:13

oh, ok, it doesn't make sense, and it hasn't made sense for 7 years, but people seem to like it and have for 7 years

next you're going to tell me Renegade doesn't drive new players away...
liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:13

[color=skyblue]so why change it now? i've watched it drive new players out of the server because there was even less they could do, and i've watched new players cluster around the st0rm servers like insects near a bright light

Again, suggest a NEW WAY for them to be more useful, something that makes logical sense, rather than HURF DURF KEEP THIS BUG BECAUSE IT'S BEEN HERE FOR AGES HURR.

liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:13

are you telling me there's absolutely no correlation?

Maybe not 100% no correlation, but I highly doubt that's the reason all their players play. I wouldn't know for sure though, I haven't played on st0rm for ages... and if I recall, I wasn't too fond of the servers.


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