Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate
| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401815 is a reply to message #401719] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 07:48   |
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Renx
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| Ethenal wrote on Sat, 05 September 2009 16:19 |
Why would it change?
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Because it can! And it should! Don't get me wrong, playing a game I used to love the way it was on release with new graphics would be awesome... for a little while. But eventually you have to fill the roll of the devs and build on it, make it better than what it was. This encompasses MUCH more than just new maps and textures. If the base elements that make up the gameplay can be changed for the better, then they should be, regardless of what the game was based on. And if you're going to argue against "funner is better" then I don't know what to think.\
Besides, this isn't SOE, changes will likely be tested and then approved/denied by the community before they go in.
~Canucck
[Updated on: Sun, 06 September 2009 07:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401839 is a reply to message #401812] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 10:52 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 09:15 |
| Spoony wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 01:06 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 05 September 2009 20:02 |
It's just as easy to kill a GDI soldier with a Nod rifle as it is to kill a Nod soldier with a GDI rifle.
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How do you think that? There are only two objective differences: GDI auto rifle does more base damage (7 compared to 5), and GDI soldier has a smaller head.
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Because statistics and number values take a second seat when human intervention comes into play.
It's someone's drive to kill the GDI soldier as a Nod soldier that makes it possible. Even if the GDI soldier did 20 damage per shot, it would still be possible to kill him if your aim is right and your mind is in the right place.
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Yes, and no one is saying it's impossible to kill the GDI soldier.
As far as I know, everyone is simply saying why make a gap between two troops that are supposed to be entirely equal, save for their appearance?
And, here's the thing that happens:
Skilled GDI soldier vs not as skilled Nod soldier: GDI soldier wins almost all the time.
Equally skilled GDI soldier vs equally skilled Nod soldier: GDI soldier will win most of the time
Skilled Nod soldier vs not as skilled GDI soldier: Nod soldier has a better chance to win.
See the problem here? It's called unbalance. No, it does not compensate for artillery. As far as I'm concerned, it's just as much of a bug as the points bug.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401846 is a reply to message #401709] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 11:26 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 05 September 2009 20:27 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Fri, 04 September 2009 06:59 |
I'm curious, as I always found it a delight that WW didn't balance out all units directly against it counterparts. I hope this will work out, let that be clear  Just trying to make sure that the balance is brilliant again, just as in Renegade 
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There is no possible way that you could have found enjoyment out of the specific idea that the balance wasn't toe-to-toe because it is almost impossible to even pick up on the differences if you had no involvement in modding or level editor.
If Level editor was never released for the public to use, then no one would have ever noticed the GDI rifle doing more damage than the Nod rifle. It's just that minuscule of a difference.
Figuring out that there is a difference is like taking two large handfuls of small pebbles, walking up to someone, and asking them to point to the hand with less without counting.
If you balance the MRLS to be EXACTLY as effective as the Artillery, people still wont notice how well they are balanced because they are two entirely different types of vehicles. Regardless of how well they play against each other, one vehicle fires 6 rockets from a mobile platform while the other fires a powerful long-ranged shell. They look different and perform different, that's enough to give off the impression that they are different.. even though, balance wise, they are exactly the same.
Renegade's asymetrical balance is nothing more than an illusion.
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Yeah right, and because of that I also did not notice the weird point behaviour of the pointbug...
I did figure out that the pointbug only works on vehicles as long as they have armour, if that's gone you will get the correct amount of points, even on a non pointfixed server.
Oh and coincidentely, I also wouldn't notice according to you how BIATCH should work. While coincedentely, I did though out how it should work. Yes, StealthEye did it codewise, but i though up the general idea. Same goes for the pointfix. I noticed it, StealthEye dug around a bit, found out it was obviously a bug (first multiplying with say x and then derive x again).
So ye you absolutely don't notice these things, IF YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW HOW TO PLAY OR ARE BUSY WANKING AT THE SAME TIME.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401851 is a reply to message #400864] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 12:05 |
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It seems I've been added to everyone's ignore lists.
EWD - that last comment was inappropiate ad-hominem. Please don't.
Time to split the thread. I'm not amused, so behave in the split one, please.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Sun, 06 September 2009 12:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401876 is a reply to message #401812] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 14:53 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 09:15 |
| Spoony wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 01:06 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 05 September 2009 20:02 |
It's just as easy to kill a GDI soldier with a Nod rifle as it is to kill a Nod soldier with a GDI rifle.
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How do you think that? There are only two objective differences: GDI auto rifle does more base damage (7 compared to 5), and GDI soldier has a smaller head.
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Because statistics and number values take a second seat when human intervention comes into play.
It's someone's drive to kill the GDI soldier as a Nod soldier that makes it possible. Even if the GDI soldier did 20 damage per shot, it would still be possible to kill him if your aim is right and your mind is in the right place.
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by this 'logic' you could say "mobius" instead of "gdi soldier".
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #401888 is a reply to message #401879] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 15:52 |
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nikki6ixx
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| JohnDoe wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 17:08 |
How about we just see how exchanging Renegade's flickerlagfest with fluid UT3 character movement and physics changes the overall effectiveness of every weapon/vehicle/unit before debating specifics of a game most of us haven't yet played..
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Pretty much everything that needs to be said, right here.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401902 is a reply to message #401876] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 19:18 |
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R315r4z0r
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| Spoony wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 17:53 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 09:15 |
| Spoony wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 01:06 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 05 September 2009 20:02 |
It's just as easy to kill a GDI soldier with a Nod rifle as it is to kill a Nod soldier with a GDI rifle.
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How do you think that? There are only two objective differences: GDI auto rifle does more base damage (7 compared to 5), and GDI soldier has a smaller head.
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Because statistics and number values take a second seat when human intervention comes into play.
It's someone's drive to kill the GDI soldier as a Nod soldier that makes it possible. Even if the GDI soldier did 20 damage per shot, it would still be possible to kill him if your aim is right and your mind is in the right place.
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by this 'logic' you could say "mobius" instead of "gdi soldier".
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And? Would it be wrong to say that? Is it not possible to kill a Mobius with a Nod Autorifle? (Despite the obvious armor differences)
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 13:52 |
Yes, and no one is saying it's impossible to kill the GDI soldier.
As far as I know, everyone is simply saying why make a gap between two troops that are supposed to be entirely equal, save for their appearance?
And, here's the thing that happens:
Skilled GDI soldier vs not as skilled Nod soldier: GDI soldier wins almost all the time.
Equally skilled GDI soldier vs equally skilled Nod soldier: GDI soldier will win most of the time
Skilled Nod soldier vs not as skilled GDI soldier: Nod soldier has a better chance to win.
See the problem here? It's called unbalance. No, it does not compensate for artillery. As far as I'm concerned, it's just as much of a bug as the points bug.
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Your post is confusing. I can't tell if you're in agreement with me or not (or if you are unaware that you are in agreement with me.)
You've stated that you're in disagreement, but your points and backup information state otherwise.
FYI, I'm FOR making the damage done by each rifle the SAME. GDI's shouldn't do more damage than Nod's.
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 14:26 |
Yeah right, and because of that I also did not notice the weird point behaviour of the pointbug...
I did figure out that the pointbug only works on vehicles as long as they have armour, if that's gone you will get the correct amount of points, even on a non pointfixed server.
Oh and coincidentely, I also wouldn't notice according to you how BIATCH should work. While coincedentely, I did though out how it should work. Yes, StealthEye did it codewise, but i though up the general idea. Same goes for the pointfix. I noticed it, StealthEye dug around a bit, found out it was obviously a bug (first multiplying with say x and then derive x again).
So ye you absolutely don't notice these things, IF YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW HOW TO PLAY OR ARE BUSY WANKING AT THE SAME TIME.
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You're contradicting what I said. Level editor is just one example of a program. BIATCH, Stealtheye, Level Editor, whatever. They are all the same. They give you knowledge of the game's makeup via an outside/behind the scenes source.
And also, points are a visible means of comparison in the game while it's in play. I'd expect you to pick up on the points bug. I don't get why you're relating it to the damage differences.
Unlike points, which you can visibly see and reference too, health and damage isn't readily available for you to see and check. If you attack someone, you wont know how much damage you did unless you sat down in a private match, fired one shot, then asked them how much damage they took. With points, all you have to do is shoot something and check the scoreboard.
[Updated on: Sun, 06 September 2009 19:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401903 is a reply to message #401902] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 20:38 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 21:18 |
And? Would it be wrong to say that? Is it not possible to kill a Mobius with a Nod Autorifle? (Despite the obvious armor differences)
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| Quote: |
It's just as easy to kill a GDI soldier with a Nod rifle as it is to kill a Nod soldier with a GDI rifle.
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you can, surely, see the difference between these two statements.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401935 is a reply to message #401902] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 04:47 |
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LeeumDee
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 21:18 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 14:26 |
Yeah right, and because of that I also did not notice the weird point behaviour of the pointbug...
I did figure out that the pointbug only works on vehicles as long as they have armour, if that's gone you will get the correct amount of points, even on a non pointfixed server.
Oh and coincidentely, I also wouldn't notice according to you how BIATCH should work. While coincedentely, I did though out how it should work. Yes, StealthEye did it codewise, but i though up the general idea. Same goes for the pointfix. I noticed it, StealthEye dug around a bit, found out it was obviously a bug (first multiplying with say x and then derive x again).
So ye you absolutely don't notice these things, IF YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW HOW TO PLAY OR ARE BUSY WANKING AT THE SAME TIME.
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You're contradicting what I said. Level editor is just one example of a program. BIATCH, Stealtheye, Level Editor, whatever. They are all the same. They give you knowledge of the game's makeup via an outside/behind the scenes source.
And also, points are a visible means of comparison in the game while it's in play. I'd expect you to pick up on the points bug. I don't get why you're relating it to the damage differences.
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StealhEye is a person, a BlackIntel admin....... Who coincidentally coded BIATCH. If you read what EWD said he helped in the production of BIATCH.
My YouTube channel
[Updated on: Mon, 07 September 2009 04:47] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #401944 is a reply to message #400864] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 07:01 |
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R315r4z0r
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Well whatever, I don't follow the anti-cheating stuff on this game anymore. But that still doesn't change what I said. You can notice numerical point differences for your player while the game is in play, client side. If you want to find out how much damage your weapon is doing, you need the utmost cooperation of someone on the other team. One should be easily noticeable, the other requires some effort.
| Spoony wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 23:38 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 06 September 2009 21:18 |
And? Would it be wrong to say that? Is it not possible to kill a Mobius with a Nod Autorifle? (Despite the obvious armor differences)
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| Quote: |
It's just as easy to kill a GDI soldier with a Nod rifle as it is to kill a Nod soldier with a GDI rifle.
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you can, surely, see the difference between these two statements.
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No, not really. Unless you're talking about the obvious, then the difference would be the character mentioned. But I really don't see your point. Have you never killed a Mobius with an Autorifle before?
[Updated on: Mon, 07 September 2009 07:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #401976 is a reply to message #400864] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 11:57 |
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[NE]Fobby[GEN]
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We've already voiced our position: we believe the MRLS has been adjusted to properly balance with the Nod Artillery, which therefore makes the obvious imbalance between GDI and Nod soldiers obsolete and unnecessary. All in all, this is a beta, and therefore it will be tested as that's the whole point of the beta release.
If you think balancing a vehicle with its counterpart will somehow flip the game on its backside, freeze over hell, and change the axis of the earth, then please either voice your concerns after you have tested the mod properly, or simply stick with W3D Renegade, as that will not change.
This should probably be locked because we've said everything that needs to be said on our part, and we've heard the arguments for having unbalanced soldiers, which we believe are obsolete.
Unreal Tournament 3 Total Conversion to C&C: Renegade
Check out Renegade X Today!
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[Updated on: Mon, 07 September 2009 11:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #401984 is a reply to message #401976] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 12:43 |
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JohnDoe
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| [NE |
Fobby[GEN] wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 13:57]We've already voiced our position: we believe the MRLS has been adjusted to properly balance with the Nod Artillery, which therefore makes the obvious imbalance between GDI and Nod soldiers obsolete and unnecessary. All in all, this is a beta, and therefore it will be tested as that's the whole point of the beta release.
If you think balancing a vehicle with its counterpart will somehow flip the game on its backside, freeze over hell, and change the axis of the earth, then please either voice your concerns after you have tested the mod properly, or simply stick with W3D Renegade, as that will not change.
This should probably be locked because we've said everything that needs to be said on our part, and we've heard the arguments for having unbalanced soldiers, which we believe are obsolete.
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100% agreed, BUT you have to change the point system ASAP if you want truely balanced gameplay. The Ramjet shouldn't be the most effective weapon in the game!
lol
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #401985 is a reply to message #401984] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 12:54 |
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[NE]Fobby[GEN]
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| JohnDoe wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 15:43 |
| [NE |
Fobby[GEN] wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 13:57]We've already voiced our position: we believe the MRLS has been adjusted to properly balance with the Nod Artillery, which therefore makes the obvious imbalance between GDI and Nod soldiers obsolete and unnecessary. All in all, this is a beta, and therefore it will be tested as that's the whole point of the beta release.
If you think balancing a vehicle with its counterpart will somehow flip the game on its backside, freeze over hell, and change the axis of the earth, then please either voice your concerns after you have tested the mod properly, or simply stick with W3D Renegade, as that will not change.
This should probably be locked because we've said everything that needs to be said on our part, and we've heard the arguments for having unbalanced soldiers, which we believe are obsolete.
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100% agreed, BUT you have to change the point system ASAP if you want truely balanced gameplay. The Ramjet shouldn't be the most effective weapon in the game!
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Are you talking about the Ramjet's damage or the points? We've already expressed that certain things will be fixed/changed with the points system, which include Ramjets - they won't be getting many points for shooting at a Mammy, for example.
Unreal Tournament 3 Total Conversion to C&C: Renegade
Check out Renegade X Today!
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[Updated on: Mon, 07 September 2009 12:55] Report message to a moderator |
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