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Re: Question for Christians [message #390545 is a reply to message #390534] |
Sat, 13 June 2009 19:10 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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AADude7
Messages: 148 Registered: September 2005
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Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
But I saw no reason to believe God doesn't exist, probably you all haven't seen a reason to believe he does.
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No, I'm sure we haven't seen a reason to believe your God exists, and I would appreciate if you would thoroughly explain your reasoning.
Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
I know he exists. And for those mouths opening to say "how?" - No. Nothing I say will affect you, that's plain and obvious.
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Ah, I get your point. You know God exists but you won't share the knowledge of how you know this (or you already know how incredibly stupid they must sound.)
Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
I don't give a damn for the misinterpretations sure to follow this message - "hah, we atheists sure showed him" "he's crazy" "he's giving up" "we win" - because they don't matter. What matters is what happens after we pass on. And those statements will be brought up in Judgement.
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Atheists beliefs are just as "wrong" as a religion's beliefs. By wrong I mean that people don't know how true or false these beliefs actually are - wouldn't it be good just to say that instead of belonging to a group that goes with one side or another?
Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
And if there is no Judgement? No afterlife? ...then I'm good, as are you all. We'll all go to the same place.
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"If there is no afterlife, at least I wouldn't have gone to Hell if there was one."
Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
And if there's a different god in power? ...we'll all go to the same place.
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I wouldn't believe so, since most religions are on the track of "believe in our God or face eternal suffering."
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[Updated on: Sat, 13 June 2009 19:11] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Question for Christians [message #390552 is a reply to message #385426] |
Sat, 13 June 2009 21:04 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Altzan
Messages: 1586 Registered: September 2008 Location: Tennessee
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I'm sorry if you feel oppressed by other religions. I'm not trying to force mine onto anyone, I'm just defending it, mainly for practice and insight.
As for "not sharing my reasoning" - I did, and that didn't go far. If you want a (hopefully) thorough explanation, PM me.
And I have a better right and wrong sense than you think. My opinions about murder, crime, hate, greed, envy, and such don't differ from yours.
And despite the arguements (debates), I would like to to thank Dover for debating politely in the vast majority of his messages (and Spoony somewhat). Others as well, but you two placed the most input.
I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
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Re: Question for Christians [message #390570 is a reply to message #390552] |
Sun, 14 June 2009 02:02 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars) Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 | I'm sorry if you feel oppressed by other religions.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "other", and you might wanna replace "feel" with "are".
Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 | As for "not sharing my reasoning" - I did, and that didn't go far. If you want a (hopefully) thorough explanation, PM me.
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Indeed it didn't go far; my question still hasn't been answered. Why, out of the thousands of gods that are (or were) thought to exist, are you absolutely convinced that one exists (and think someone is a 'hopeless case' for wanting some kind of proof or at least convincing logic) but sneer at the others?
Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 | And I have a better right and wrong sense than you think. My opinions about murder, crime, hate, greed, envy, and such don't differ from yours.
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It would be depressing indeed if you couldn't see anything wrong with murder.
"Crime" is very vague; let's remember that many things are against the law even though there aren't even the most feeble moral arguments against them. Laws prohibiting homosexuals from enjoying their private life in several states, for example. The other three are thoughtcrimes, so I suspect your opinions are actually quite different to mine. Still, the last four pale by comparison to the point I've kept repeating and I've been absolutely baffled by your lack of reaction to it:
threatening somebody with punishment for the 'crime' of disagreeing with you
^^
your religion has been doing this for nearly two thousand years. It still does, including - most disgustingly of all - to children. So far the closest you've come to a defence of this evil is: "we might be lying". You think you know right from wrong? I expect you do think that; you also think you haven't been brainwashed; you also think that prayer counts as atonement without any need to bother with apologising to people you hurt or trying to make amends; you also think there are no fossils older than 10,000 years back. I could go on.
Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 | And despite the arguements (debates), I would like to to thank Dover for debating politely in the vast majority of his messages (and Spoony somewhat). Others as well, but you two placed the most input.
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There is no need to be polite when criticising religion.
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[Updated on: Sun, 14 June 2009 02:04] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Question for Christians [message #390592 is a reply to message #390570] |
Sun, 14 June 2009 08:27 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507 Registered: March 2003 Location: Jackson, Michigan
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General (5 Stars) |
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Spoony | Indeed it didn't go far; my question still hasn't been answered. Why, out of the thousands of gods that are (or were) thought to exist, are you absolutely convinced that one exists (and think someone is a 'hopeless case' for wanting some kind of proof or at least convincing logic) but sneer at the others?
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I know you were waiting for him to answer the question, but I'll go ahead and do it.
The reason is very simple. It's the culture of America and the Western world. His parents are Christian, and everything around him supports Christianity. It's no different than choosing a favorite sports team. I live ~30 miles from two universities. My city is essentially split on the fans. One team roots for Michigan State, the other half for Michigan. I, for one, am a Michigan fan. I'm not a fan because I went to the school, nor was my decision influenced by any person I know going to the school. I have no real objective reasons why I am a Michigan fan. My parents are Michigan fans, though. They have been since before I was born. There's absolutely no tangible reasoning as to why I should be a Michigan instead of a Michigan State fan. Religion is the exact same way, and it's how I was a Christian, and I'm sure that's why my brother still is a Christian. It's purely subjective due to nature and/or nurture.
Face it, it's been said several times in this thread already... it's a luck of the draw where you're born and that has a huge impact on what your faith system is. Then to have the audacity to say that your religion is the one, true faith? Had one been born in Sweden instead of America, in all likelihood, you'd probably be an atheist. Were you born in Iran, you'd most likely be a Muslim. Yes, people can switch from "wrong" religions to the "right" religion. Though, I'm willing to bet the percentage of Christians changing faiths is probably not all that different from other faiths leaving theirs. I'll concede that a majority of people switching from other faiths are probably switching to Christianity, but I'll also suggest (with no tangible evidence, as I'm too lazy) that it has a lot to do with exposure to Christianity.
Again, I'll use my sports team analogy. Take several universities across America that are about the same proficiency in sports. Then you poll people who were born and raised in that area to see what sports team they align with. Removing the people who know students/alumni of the university, you'll still have a high percentage of people rooting for the local university. Again, not because their team may be better than another, but because it's the environment they're brought up in, and I bet you that their parents are fans, as well.
There is always going to be exceptions. No model is going to be 100% accurate, but it definitely does give insight as to why people are religious.
whoa.
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