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Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #375090 is a reply to message #374999]

Thu, 05 March 2009 22:23

Spoony
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Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 13:26

I refuse to believe that one set of apes evolved to have great intelligence and morals, while the vast majority of apes are still picking each other's butts.

Our morals are no so much greater than apes; they don't kill each other or seek to restrict each others' freedoms for the specific purpose that they think they're commanded to do so by a celestial super-ape. Picking lice off your friends seems like a much more moral, civilised and useful activity.

Jerad Gray wrote

I think if 4.5 million years was correct our planet would have screwed itself over thousands of years ago without our help. It seems to be in too good of condition to be 4.5 million years old, so whether god is real or not, I doubt earth is 4.5 million years old Thumbs Up

Billion. Note the 'b'. The world hasn't screwed itself over thousands of times? Are you aware that well over 90% of species that ever existed on this planet have gone extinct? I'm not talking about deforestation or Japanese whaling here, I'm talking about the price of evolution.

Jerad Gray wrote

But thats besides the point, has anyone here ever stopped to think how much more sense it would have made if NOTHING (and I mean truly nothing, like space itself (emptiness) not even to exist).

In fact, I'm currently stopping to think how much less sense this sentence of yours makes.

Jerad Gray wrote

Now, science states that matter cannot be created or destroyed, and yet we do exist, which means at SOME POINT in time matter was created. Science claims that the big bang is where all the matter in the universe was at one point in time, and prior to that... maybe the last universe that collapsed? And what about prior to that... my point is that at some point in time, this was all created, and whether it was in a compact ball of matter, or by a god, a bunch of gods, ect. , I can't tell you.

So far so good, especially the last four words.

Jerad Gray wrote

But what I can tell you, is that at some point in time, on of sciences most basic laws is WRONG.

You do know what science is, right? Science is our continued understanding of the world, and it develops over time... gradually, just as our understanding of morality does.

Jerad Gray wrote

So, basically we are existing on loaned matter, and I'd hate to be around when it comes time to return said matter

Now you're just babbling.

Jerad Gray wrote

So when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a "God" be in control of when all this matter, rather than the alternative none existence randomness that created it, because I'm sure it could just as easily take it away. If one of them was going to take it all away, I'd much rater there be some though fist...

You're confusing truth for comfort; it comforts you that God is in charge of everything. I must disagree. Going by the depiction of Yahweh in the Bible, I am comforted by the likelihood of his non-existence. As for when it's all going to be taken away... well, incidentally there are two imminent events on the horizon. Firstly our sun has a limited lifespan. It's probably got a few million years in it left, but it eventually will die, first becoming a red giant. Secondly the universe is expanding faster and faster (a fascinating scientific study in itself) and the Andromeda galaxy is headed directly on a collision course towards ours. Either of these events will spell doom for this planet and everything on it. Finding another planet a fucking long way away seems the only feasible way of preserving anything we know.

So, how much help do you think religion is in this matter? If God put us in this situation, surely he's either appallingly cruel or appallingly incompetent? (Of course, one could easily think the answer is "both" after reading the Bible, but that still doesn't indicate that he exists at all, let alone is responsible for creating anything.)

Jerad Gray wrote

Was that completely off topic? Possibly... Just Remember the scientific standards...
4.5 Billion - Estimate

...supported by a great deal of evidence

Jerad Gray wrote

Evolution - Theory

...supported by a STAGGERING amount of evidence (and do you know what the word 'theory' even means...?)

Jerad Gray wrote

Matter cannot be Created or Destroyed - Law

Whoah, hold on there buddy. Matter can't be created, so that proves matter was created, therefore proving God exists?

Jerad Gray wrote

I think one living cell magically appearing, multiplying into a multi cell organism after 4.5 billion years is just as likely as god creating a lot of cells in the form of a human....

How can you possibly assess the likelihood of 'god' creating something if you don't know anything about that 'god'?

See, the event you're thinking of is the wrong one. If you want to put your finger on the origin of life from a creationist viewpoint, the equivalent to the first building blocks of life (which incidentally is not a single cell, nor does the word 'magically' make any sense) is not the creation of stuff by God at all; surely it is the creation OF God. Supposedly God is powerful enough to create a planet and species to live there, he'd be far more advanced than any species we know, or anything that has ever been invented. Doesn't he count as 'life', then? So the real beginning of life isn't God creating the world; it's the creation of God, and nobody's ever come up with a convincing argument as to how, when, or why that supposedly happened.

So let's ask your question again, but replace your fallacious straw-men with more accurate events.

Jerad Gray probably should have wrote

I think the building blocks of organic life forming from inorganic components, which has been conclusively demonstrated in a laboratory, is just as likely as the creation of an enormously powerful entity, that we might call a 'god', capable of making planets and humans.

Just as likely, eh?

Jerad Gray wrote

If I was god, I'd be a dick and purposely create it too look like someone else did it, that way I could later punish people for fun for not taking a hint from the book I left them

And yet you find it comforting!

Jerad Gray wrote

And beings neither can LOGICALLY be, they are both EQUALLY possible.

See above.

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		How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: reborn on Fri, 27 February 2009 00:46
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Fri, 27 February 2009 03:33
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 27 February 2009 04:19
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Herr Surth on Fri, 27 February 2009 05:59
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Ma1kel on Fri, 27 February 2009 06:11
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Doitle on Fri, 27 February 2009 07:55
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: DeadX07 on Fri, 27 February 2009 08:02
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Sat, 28 February 2009 01:24
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Thu, 05 March 2009 09:03
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Dreganius on Thu, 05 March 2009 06:17
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: DeadX07 on Thu, 05 March 2009 08:51
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 27 February 2009 09:16
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: slosha on Fri, 27 March 2009 12:27
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Fri, 27 February 2009 10:07
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: dr3w2 on Fri, 27 February 2009 11:46
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Genesis2001 on Fri, 27 February 2009 12:21
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: archerman on Fri, 13 March 2009 07:32
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Starbuzzz on Fri, 13 March 2009 10:51
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Fri, 27 February 2009 15:20
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: DeadX07 on Fri, 27 February 2009 20:20
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 27 February 2009 23:48
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Muad Dib15 on Sat, 28 February 2009 07:50
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Sat, 28 February 2009 09:42
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sat, 28 February 2009 14:21
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Muad Dib15 on Sat, 28 February 2009 15:36
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: dr3w2 on Sat, 28 February 2009 15:19
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Sat, 28 February 2009 16:50
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Rocko on Sat, 28 February 2009 17:59
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Sat, 28 February 2009 18:57
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 01 March 2009 10:05
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Muad Dib15 on Sun, 01 March 2009 13:53
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Herr Surth on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:46
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Rocko on Sun, 01 March 2009 16:50
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Sun, 01 March 2009 20:00
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 01 March 2009 20:13
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Sun, 01 March 2009 20:20
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Mighty BOB! on Sun, 01 March 2009 22:16
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Ma1kel on Mon, 02 March 2009 08:56
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Mon, 02 March 2009 11:35
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Tue, 03 March 2009 14:31
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: reborn on Thu, 05 March 2009 08:31
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 12:26
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: jnz on Thu, 05 March 2009 13:12
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 14:25
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: jnz on Thu, 05 March 2009 14:47
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 16:03
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Herr Surth on Thu, 05 March 2009 16:06
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 16:10
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Dreganius on Thu, 05 March 2009 21:59
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: jnz on Fri, 06 March 2009 00:44
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 06 March 2009 00:58
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Dreganius on Fri, 06 March 2009 01:55
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Fri, 06 March 2009 02:15
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Thu, 05 March 2009 22:23
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 22:30
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Thu, 05 March 2009 22:32
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 22:33
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Thu, 05 March 2009 22:56
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 22:59
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 22:52
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Thu, 05 March 2009 23:48
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Dreganius on Fri, 06 March 2009 00:11
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 06 March 2009 00:27
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Fri, 06 March 2009 07:20
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 06 March 2009 07:43
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Fri, 06 March 2009 08:09
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 06 March 2009 08:28
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Fri, 06 March 2009 08:43
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 06 March 2009 08:52
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Fri, 06 March 2009 09:31
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 06 March 2009 08:53
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Fri, 06 March 2009 00:26
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:16
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Mighty BOB! on Thu, 05 March 2009 15:03
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Thu, 05 March 2009 16:12
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 16:31
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 05 March 2009 17:26
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Jerad2142 on Thu, 05 March 2009 17:55
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 06 March 2009 19:40
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 05 March 2009 17:54
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Fri, 06 March 2009 03:41
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Herr Surth on Fri, 06 March 2009 06:10
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Rocko on Fri, 06 March 2009 23:31
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Dreganius on Sat, 07 March 2009 02:25
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Fri, 13 March 2009 06:05
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: renalpha on Sat, 07 March 2009 07:56
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Spoony on Sat, 14 March 2009 03:47
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 13 March 2009 11:59
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: Renx on Sun, 15 March 2009 09:42
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: slosha on Sun, 15 March 2009 21:32
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: u6795 on Mon, 16 March 2009 11:44
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 27 March 2009 16:08
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: u6795 on Fri, 27 March 2009 18:10
		Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 27 March 2009 19:52

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