Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible.
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374221 is a reply to message #374188] |
Sun, 01 March 2009 16:50   |
Rocko
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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could you sound like any more of a retard LOL
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374261 is a reply to message #374255] |
Sun, 01 March 2009 20:13 |
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R315r4z0r
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| Jerad Gray wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 22:00 |
For anyone that is going to argue that age disproves the bible good luck, think about it, if god made the earth he could have made it LOOK as old as he wanted it too.
Now instead debating science and religion lets debate something that you also can't prove or disprove.
Prove to me we are not all just a part of some advanced sims game. Where we are programmed to think and act real, interact and do other things we consider to be "real." As far as we know ever two hours the computer on which we are playing has its state saved, is shut down, and started up again 5 hours later at which point we continue our actions never knowing anything had happened 
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Lol I used to have that same thought myself. Except the last time I thought about it was back in like 3rd grade.
Anyway, it would take an extremely high performance computer to handle something like that. Have you ever really looked at your surroundings? That's not just a simple tree in your yard, every crack, every chip on its surface, deviation in its surface texture is unique and has its own story to tell.
Every small pebble is unique in shape and size and just as well has its own story to tell. How it got there, how long its been there, how old it is since it was created, how it got that little gash on the side of it.
For a computer to hold, store, and present that information in a constant state without flaw or without demanding power needs is simply unimaginable.
Sure, you could say "unimaginable to us." But, seriously now.. why spend that much work on a game that is nothing more than carbon copy of life itself?
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374266 is a reply to message #374261] |
Sun, 01 March 2009 20:20 |
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Jerad2142
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 20:13 |
| Jerad Gray wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 22:00 |
For anyone that is going to argue that age disproves the bible good luck, think about it, if god made the earth he could have made it LOOK as old as he wanted it too.
Now instead debating science and religion lets debate something that you also can't prove or disprove.
Prove to me we are not all just a part of some advanced sims game. Where we are programmed to think and act real, interact and do other things we consider to be "real." As far as we know ever two hours the computer on which we are playing has its state saved, is shut down, and started up again 5 hours later at which point we continue our actions never knowing anything had happened
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Lol I used to have that same thought myself. Except the last time I thought about it was back in like 3rd grade.
Anyway, it would take an extremely high performance computer to handle something like that. Have you ever really looked at your surroundings? That's not just a simple tree in your yard, every crack, every chip on its surface, deviation in its surface texture is unique and has its own story to tell.
Every small pebble is unique in shape and size and just as well has its own story to tell. How it got there, how long its been there, how old it is since it was created, how it got that little gash on the side of it.
For a computer to hold, store, and present that information in a constant state without flaw or without demanding power needs is simply unimaginable.
Sure, you could say "unimaginable to us." But, seriously now.. why spend that much work on a game that is nothing more than carbon copy of life itself?
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Perhaps its not a carbon copy of life its self, or maybe its a carbon copy of life that long sense died out lol (or even if it was then its just like the sim city/sims games (which I hate because I personally find them extremely boring).
Any glitches that appeared we would simply either accept to be real, or just think we were seeing things.
And maybe in comparison to a real reality, this is horribly under detailed, we would never know, it would be just like trying to imagine a NEW color to the system of colors we currently know, our minds simply can't do it.
And finally, maybe the came is constantly lagging, and running extremely slow, but we would never know that, as we would never have a sense of external time, as far as we would know, the ten seconds that just happened to us took a day for the computer to generate.
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374282 is a reply to message #374188] |
Sun, 01 March 2009 22:16 |
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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Actually they take that into account already. The figure only gets to about 10,000 years tops.
The bible, or any religious text for that matter, should absolutely not be interpreted literally. Sometimes they have good messages that people should abide by like "Hey don't kill your neighbor or steal his stuff or his wife" but then they also contain "supernatural" things that can easily be explained by modern science, like disease being caused by bacteria, viruses, and unsanitary conditions, as opposed to "the wrath of an omnipotent, omniscient creator-being."
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374388 is a reply to message #374282] |
Mon, 02 March 2009 08:56 |
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Ma1kel
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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haha
Dutch to English
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374425 is a reply to message #374188] |
Mon, 02 March 2009 11:35 |
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Spoony
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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| Spoony wrote |
fobby, it's basically done by counting the number of generations in the bible. unfortunately the people who do so don't seem to mind that people attend impossibly old ages
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374635 is a reply to message #374425] |
Tue, 03 March 2009 14:31 |
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Jerad2142
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| Spoony wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 11:35 |
| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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| Spoony wrote |
fobby, it's basically done by counting the number of generations in the bible. unfortunately the people who do so don't seem to mind that people attend impossibly old ages
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Soooo.... anyone have a Bible on them, I'm at school and don't have one on me, someone should count up how many generations there were between Adam and Noah, Noah lived to be extremely old as well if I remember correctly, we should average Noah and Adam together and get a ROUGH estimate of how long people were actually living. Because I seriously doubt that there were only 4 or 5 people born before Noah.
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374953 is a reply to message #374635] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 08:31 |
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| Jerad Gray wrote on Tue, 03 March 2009 16:31 |
| Spoony wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 11:35 |
| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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| Spoony wrote |
fobby, it's basically done by counting the number of generations in the bible. unfortunately the people who do so don't seem to mind that people attend impossibly old ages
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Soooo.... anyone have a Bible on them, I'm at school and don't have one on me, someone should count up how many generations there were between Adam and Noah, Noah lived to be extremely old as well if I remember correctly, we should average Noah and Adam together and get a ROUGH estimate of how long people were actually living. Because I seriously doubt that there were only 4 or 5 people born before Noah.
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Even if you said they was working on the idea that the average person only lived 30 years, we can work out how many generations they had it out by doing 6000/30 = 200.
So even if we said there was 200 generations, and each of them lived for 1000 years, that 200*1000 = 200,000.
Although 200,000 years is allot more then 6000 years, it's still nowhere near 4.5 billion years. Even if you said they lived 10,000 years, and only reproduced at the end of there life, then that's still only 200*10,000 = 2 million years.
Whether the bible points towards an age of 6000 years or 2 million years, it's way off 4.5 billion years. My question remains, do you shrug it off and accept that science is right, and try not to think about this, or do you simply tell yourself that science always gets it wrong, hey, it wasn't that long ago they thought the Earth was flat.
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374956 is a reply to message #374943] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 08:51 |
DeadX07
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| Karandras wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 07:17 |
| DeadX07 wrote on Sat, 28 February 2009 02:02 |
The Bible states that the Earth was made in seven days. In numerous parts of the Bible you will read that to God, a day is like a thousand years (as well as other similar metaphors). So I suppose it is possible that the Earth itself is very old, but mankind has only been existant for the 6000 years. I don't personally believe science and their billion year statistics they always pull out, but who is to say I am right or wrong. Do we really know anything about our own planet or ourselves for that matter? Not really.
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*calculates*
7 times 1000 is 7000...
7000 minus 6000 is... carry the two...
OH MY GOD.
WAIT A MINUTE! THE EARTH IS STILL BEING CREATED BY GOD! BY GEORGE I GOT IT!
He's got 1 more day to do it. Or 1000 more years, for us slow bastards.
Now THATS a theory.
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Not meant to be taken literally. 1000 years was just an example, as God does not exist in time. Same for the 6000 years, just an example, as I don't know how long humans have really been here since I haven't done the research.
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374957 is a reply to message #373897] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 09:03 |
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Spoony
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 28 February 2009 02:24 |
welcome to the way religious people argue compared to the way scientists argue. when scientists look at the evidence and it doesn't tie up to their theory, they adapt the theory or start a new one from scratch. with the religious, the automatic reflex is "oh, it's a metaphor", "i know it says 'days' but it really means something else" etc etc etc. the possibility that the bible is just plain wrong never crosses the mind.
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #374999 is a reply to message #374953] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 12:26 |
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Jerad2142
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| reborn wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 08:31 |
| Jerad Gray wrote on Tue, 03 March 2009 16:31 |
| Spoony wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 11:35 |
| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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| Spoony wrote |
fobby, it's basically done by counting the number of generations in the bible. unfortunately the people who do so don't seem to mind that people attend impossibly old ages
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Soooo.... anyone have a Bible on them, I'm at school and don't have one on me, someone should count up how many generations there were between Adam and Noah, Noah lived to be extremely old as well if I remember correctly, we should average Noah and Adam together and get a ROUGH estimate of how long people were actually living. Because I seriously doubt that there were only 4 or 5 people born before Noah.
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Even if you said they was working on the idea that the average person only lived 30 years, we can work out how many generations they had it out by doing 6000/30 = 200.
So even if we said there was 200 generations, and each of them lived for 1000 years, that 200*1000 = 200,000.
Although 200,000 years is allot more then 6000 years, it's still nowhere near 4.5 billion years. Even if you said they lived 10,000 years, and only reproduced at the end of there life, then that's still only 200*10,000 = 2 million years.
Whether the bible points towards an age of 6000 years or 2 million years, it's way off 4.5 billion years. My question remains, do you shrug it off and accept that science is right, and try not to think about this, or do you simply tell yourself that science always gets it wrong, hey, it wasn't that long ago they thought the Earth was flat.
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I refuse to believe that one set of apes evolved to have great intelligence and morals, while the vast majority of apes are still picking each other's butts.
I think if 4.5 million years was correct our planet would have screwed itself over thousands of years ago without our help. It seems to be in too good of condition to be 4.5 million years old, so whether god is real or not, I doubt earth is 4.5 million years old
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #375010 is a reply to message #374999] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 13:12 |
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jnz
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| Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 19:26 |
| reborn wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 08:31 |
| Jerad Gray wrote on Tue, 03 March 2009 16:31 |
| Spoony wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 11:35 |
| Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 14:53 |
Genisis 5:3-5 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. Everyone before Noah lived very long lives before they died. Take that into consideration before you say that we believe that people have only been here 6,000 years.
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| Spoony wrote |
fobby, it's basically done by counting the number of generations in the bible. unfortunately the people who do so don't seem to mind that people attend impossibly old ages
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Soooo.... anyone have a Bible on them, I'm at school and don't have one on me, someone should count up how many generations there were between Adam and Noah, Noah lived to be extremely old as well if I remember correctly, we should average Noah and Adam together and get a ROUGH estimate of how long people were actually living. Because I seriously doubt that there were only 4 or 5 people born before Noah.
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Even if you said they was working on the idea that the average person only lived 30 years, we can work out how many generations they had it out by doing 6000/30 = 200.
So even if we said there was 200 generations, and each of them lived for 1000 years, that 200*1000 = 200,000.
Although 200,000 years is allot more then 6000 years, it's still nowhere near 4.5 billion years. Even if you said they lived 10,000 years, and only reproduced at the end of there life, then that's still only 200*10,000 = 2 million years.
Whether the bible points towards an age of 6000 years or 2 million years, it's way off 4.5 billion years. My question remains, do you shrug it off and accept that science is right, and try not to think about this, or do you simply tell yourself that science always gets it wrong, hey, it wasn't that long ago they thought the Earth was flat.
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I refuse to believe that one set of apes evolved to have great intelligence and morals, while the vast majority of apes are still picking each other's butts.
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Other apes are the same as they were 1000s of years ago because they don't all evolve in one great change.
Only a handful will have mutations, and some of those mutants will survive and some will not. That doesn't mean the whole ape population is now mutant. Just 1 in 10,000.
The normal apes will continue to live and reproduce exactly as they do now.
| Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 19:26 |
I think if 4.5 million years was correct our planet would have screwed itself over thousands of years ago without our help. It seems to be in too good of condition to be 4.5 million years old, so whether god is real or not, I doubt earth is 4.5 million years old
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Science has already proven they early has already "screwed itself over" many times already. Anything that has happened to the earth has been "fixed" through climate change and the effects that the change caused in the first place.
A good example is the many ice ages that have happened. The earth is only warmed by inferred radiation from the sun. So there has to be a surface that will absorb the radiation. We all know that black is better than white at absorbing this heat. The ice age causes a lot of snow to fall, and thus, the earth slowly cools again because it is no longer absorbing as much heat. Which restores the ice caps, which desalinize the sea and the north Atlantic current will start up again bringing heat to Europe from the equator.
[Updated on: Thu, 05 March 2009 13:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #375029 is a reply to message #375010] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 14:25 |
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Jerad2142
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Did you know, when mt st Helen's went off, it put more greenhouse causing gases into the atmosphere then the human race has in its entire existence. Did you know that 3 equally powerful volcanoes go off each year. Now multiply that by 4.5 billion years and explain to me how we still have an ozone layer...
But thats besides the point, has anyone here ever stopped to think how much more sense it would have made if NOTHING (and I mean truly nothing, like space itself (emptiness) not even to exist). Now, science states that matter cannot be created or destroyed, and yet we do exist, which means at SOME POINT in time matter was created. Science claims that the big bang is where all the matter in the universe was at one point in time, and prior to that... maybe the last universe that collapsed? And what about prior to that... my point is that at some point in time, this was all created, and whether it was in a compact ball of matter, or by a god, a bunch of gods, ect. , I can't tell you. But what I can tell you, is that at some point in time, on of sciences most basic laws is WRONG. So, basically we are existing on loaned matter, and I'd hate to be around when it comes time to return said matter  So when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a "God" be in control of when all this matter, rather than the alternative none existence randomness that created it, because I'm sure it could just as easily take it away. If one of them was going to take it all away, I'd much rater there be some though fist...
Was that completely off topic? Possibly... Just Remember the scientific standards...
4.5 Billion - Estimate
Evolution - Theory
Matter cannot be Created or Destroyed - Law
And please be open minded
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #375038 is a reply to message #375029] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 14:47 |
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jnz
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| Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 21:25 |
Did you know, when mt st Helen's went off, it put more greenhouse causing gases into the atmosphere then the human race has in its entire existence. Did you know that 3 equally powerful volcanoes go off each year. Now multiply that by 4.5 billion years and explain to me how we still have an ozone layer...
But thats besides the point, has anyone here ever stopped to think how much more sense it would have made if NOTHING (and I mean truly nothing, like space itself (emptiness) not even to exist). Now, science states that matter cannot be created or destroyed, and yet we do exist, which means at SOME POINT in time matter was created. Science claims that the big bang is where all the matter in the universe was at one point in time, and prior to that... maybe the last universe that collapsed? And what about prior to that... my point is that at some point in time, this was all created, and whether it was in a compact ball of matter, or by a god, a bunch of gods, ect. , I can't tell you. But what I can tell you, is that at some point in time, on of sciences most basic laws is WRONG. So, basically we are existing on loaned matter, and I'd hate to be around when it comes time to return said matter So when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a "God" be in control of when all this matter, rather than the alternative none existence randomness that created it, because I'm sure it could just as easily take it away. If one of them was going to take it all away, I'd much rater there be some though fist...
Was that completely off topic? Possibly... Just Remember the scientific standards...
4.5 Billion - Estimate
Evolution - Theory
Matter cannot be Created or Destroyed - Law
And please be open minded
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The big bang actually started as a sort of "energy ball", pure energy. We already know you can convert energy into matter and the other way round.
The ozone layer is not effected by volcanoes erupting, I don't know where you got this from. The ozone layer also plays no part in global warming or the prevention of.
4.5 billion years is an estimate because it's such a high number, It's like saying 3.141 is an estimate of PI. We could easily say that the earth is definitely older than 1 million years at least.
Our laws of physics are not wrong, I can assure you that you have not found the "big flaw" in our science. We don't claim to know "everything" and unlike many religions, we don't make up crazy stories about how we came to be. We base our knowledge on stuff that we can see, observe and cut open. Ask any good scientist how the big bang was triggered and he will say he doesn't know. He could offer you a theory, sure, but he will not state that theory as fact.
Most scientists agree that the laws of physics that we have defined are -only- in our universe. Anything outside our universe may have different laws. Maybe a law that "matter cannot be created" is not the case outside our universe. Maybe a big ball of energy was created randomly outside of us and expanded into matter?
That's even besides the point! How could you believe that someone created the big bang in the first place if "the bible" says it didn't happen?
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #375047 is a reply to message #375045] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 16:10 |
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Jerad2142
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| Frontier Psychiatrist wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 16:06 |
| Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 17:03 |
| RoShamBo wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 14:47 |
The big bang actually started as a sort of "energy ball", pure energy. We already know you can convert energy into matter and the other way round.
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Ah silly me, I forgot energy could be created from nothing 
I'm neither a scientist or a priest, I'm just trying to point out concepts here...
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neither can god be created from nothing.
The difference is, the big bang theory at least has *some* evidence. even if its nearly nothing, its mor than nothing 
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If I was god, I'd be a dick and purposely create it too look like someone else did it, that way I could later punish people for fun for not taking a hint from the book I left them
And beings neither can LOGICALLY be, they are both EQUALLY possible.
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| Re: How old is our planet, and the effect this question has on the Bible. [message #375057 is a reply to message #373722] |
Thu, 05 March 2009 17:26 |
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R315r4z0r
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Energy can't be created in a way we (as humans) can conceive (at this point in time?)
Also, to the person who said "god doesn't exist in time." To us, God would be a 4th dimensional being. Being able to move through the passage of time just as we can move forward/backward, left/right, up/down in space. You can't just "not exist in time." Because then that's just another way to say you don't exist, period.
As for how Earth should be in bad shape given its age: It should be in the condition it is in now. Most of Earth's surface is renewable and can regenerate itself. Meaning much of Earth's features come back after time. Now, take into consideration all the features on Earth's surface that do show age. Take into consideration erosion and its effects on other things on the surface. Mountains, valleys, oceans, ect.
Not to mention all of the moving plates over Earth's surface and how all of Earth used to be one large continent (instead of the 7 we have currently).
My point is, Earth shows its age in many, many different ways. And it is much older than 4.5 million years.
Edit:
Also, how can it possibly make more sense for humans to just appear out of nothing and breed from two people rather than evolve from apes? Obviously, the reason behind why not all monkeys evolved into Humans is due to habitat and location. Evolution occurs as a reaction to outside environments over long extended periods of time. Not only that, but there are many different species of monkeys.. so not all of them could have evolved into one species of human...
And isn't disbelieving we evolved from apes because of how inadequate apes are from humans both against religious tolerance and completely arrogant at the same time?
[Updated on: Thu, 05 March 2009 17:34] Report message to a moderator |
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