Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared
| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #371985 is a reply to message #371075] |
Fri, 13 February 2009 13:52   |
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Hex
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Registered: March 2004
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I guess it depends on how you go about it
We have a system in place where PM's in the server is checked against a 'list' by the bot (coded in to scripts.dll) and flags these words to IRC for mods to see, this list of words are such that they are not what would normaly be used by everyone IE 'ni.gger, jew, faggot'
I see no harm in the way that we do this, infact all my mods AND any player that knows about the system support the idea.
Hex
| goztow wrote on Tue, 11 May 2010 08:00 |
If we had to ban all who ever cheated or ever created a cheat (obj3cts and such) then I don't think there would be many members left here (sad fact).
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| reborn wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 23:37 |
std is for pro's. 
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[Updated on: Fri, 13 February 2009 13:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #373879 is a reply to message #371075] |
Fri, 27 February 2009 21:30 |
masterkna
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regardless if a person owns a server or not, the fact that it is called a private message is enough. for some reason the words big brother come to mind. anyone here read 1984? its been a few years so i am fuzzy on the details. but the fact remains that if you log a person's private conversation, you can access the information that was sent between the two or more individuals when ever you like. might as well just use public chat and save the owner's/moderators the trouble of logging...
 | GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 |
Then again, banning anyone for anything automatically makes you a biased prick who shouldn't be a moderator.
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lol
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #395925 is a reply to message #395922] |
Wed, 22 July 2009 12:02 |
_SSnipe_
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| jnz wrote on Wed, 22 July 2009 11:54 |
| SSnipe wrote on Wed, 22 July 2009 18:38 |
Maybe should have it where the private message are saved, and hopefully only a trust worthy person will only look after them IF NEEDED ONLY? idk
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Since it only shows on the FDS console you'd have to be pretty trustworthy to have that access.
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Thats true aswell
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #395951 is a reply to message #371075] |
Wed, 22 July 2009 19:49 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
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For the record, n00bstories has never and will never log, spy on, or read private messages in our server. Period. If we ever did change our minds on that, it would be disclosed to you when you connected to the server.
We also agree that if you do not like your private conversations read, you should play on another server. We are easy to find.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #395964 is a reply to message #371075] |
Wed, 22 July 2009 23:41 |
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futura83
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Viva la Resistance! |
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Personally i never use the private message system.
Although i think i may have voiced my opinions already on this subject (probably somewhere earlier in this thread).
I'll find it a sad day when someone chooses a server based on whether it is known they record their private messages or not.
This is a signature. Reading this is wasting your time.
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #395967 is a reply to message #395964] |
Thu, 23 July 2009 00:25 |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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| futura83 wrote on Thu, 23 July 2009 08:41 |
I'll find it a sad day when someone chooses a server based on whether it is known they record their private messages or not.
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This ^.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #395974 is a reply to message #395967] |
Thu, 23 July 2009 02:25 |
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LeeumDee
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When I started Renegade I thought it was the norm that PM's could be read via IRC. The first server i moderated for could read pm's and it's great for catching cheaters slip up and things like this.
I think it should be considered that "private" in private messages, doesn't mean: Nobody but you and the recipient can read this. It means, nobody else ingame but you and the recipient can read this.
If you send information what you consider private over a message system in a game, then your priorities are messed up. Make a phone call, send a text, get off the game and see them.
My YouTube channel
[Updated on: Thu, 23 July 2009 02:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #395975 is a reply to message #371075] |
Thu, 23 July 2009 02:28 |
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futura83
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Viva la Resistance! |
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I'm gonna have to concede that i do use the private message system, actually, but only when a team-mate needs a bit of information that only they need to know....so it's not really private, it's just to co-ordinate better when doing a bit of a stealth rush with just 1 other.
This is a signature. Reading this is wasting your time.
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396037 is a reply to message #371075] |
Thu, 23 July 2009 18:50 |
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R315r4z0r
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It makes no difference if the message being sent contains private information or not. The fact of the matter is that it's called a private message. If someone else, other than the person you are sending it to, is able to read the message, regardless of what it says, it is no longer private.
Who are you tell someone what they can and can't say in a private message? If someone wants to talk to a personal friend, who also happens to be in game, about a private matter and share information they don't want others to see, then they have all the right to do that. It's a freaking game! Get over it.
A private message should not be allowed to be read, without permission, by anyone other than the sender and the receiver. I don't care if you're trying to catch a cheater, trying to nail an exploiter, or simply have a thing for spying on people. A private message is private unless it's made otherwise by either the sender or the receiver. Period. No ifs ands or buts about it.
[Updated on: Thu, 23 July 2009 18:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396042 is a reply to message #396037] |
Thu, 23 July 2009 20:45 |
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futura83
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Viva la Resistance! |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Fri, 24 July 2009 02:50 |
It makes no difference if the message being sent contains private information or not. The fact of the matter is that it's called a private message. If someone else, other than the person you are sending it to, is able to read the message, regardless of what it says, it is no longer private.
Who are you tell someone what they can and can't say in a private message? If someone wants to talk to a personal friend, who also happens to be in game, about a private matter and share information they don't want others to see, then they have all the right to do that. It's a freaking game! Get over it.
A private message should not be allowed to be read, without permission, by anyone other than the sender and the receiver. I don't care if you're trying to catch a cheater, trying to nail an exploiter, or simply have a thing for spying on people. A private message is private unless it's made otherwise by either the sender or the receiver. Period. No ifs ands or buts about it.
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I see both sides of this tbh.
I see what you mean, about how people should be able to send private messages to a friend, and have them private, but then, how private can a message be? I mean, it's not like you're going to give out information about where you live, or contact details etc, the most private thing you might give out (or well, the most private thing you'll say if you're smart) will not mean anything to anyone that could potentially read it.
Be honest now, how many of you actually use the private messaging system regularly, for more than just co-ordination or something else game related?
About the whole 'we can use it to stop cheaters' argument: I say that's invalid too. I mean, you aren't going to find a cheater that will just randomly message someone they've killed saying they're cheating and that's how they've killed them, most of the time it is likely the defeated got pissed and accused the killer of cheating, and, depending on the mood of the killer, they could decide to humour them and just say 'yeah i'm well hacking' to piss them off or something. But still, isn't there much better ways at catching cheaters than through monitoring private messages?
Those that don't like the thought of their PMs being monitored: If you found out your favourite server monitored your PMs, would you leave it in favour of one that doesn't do it, or is not yet known to do it?
Like i said though, i understand why you get annoyed at PMs being monitored, but like you said, it's a game, and quite frankly, if members of my team stopped helping out just to have a conversation with a friend then i'd be getting a little pissy, after all, if you're in game, you're there to play not socialise, if you are so desperate for a catch up with a friend or just a chat, go on IRC or msn or something.
Also, there's nothing you can do really about PMs being monitored but moan and hope someone cares to listen, unfortunately.
This is a signature. Reading this is wasting your time.
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396061 is a reply to message #371075] |
Fri, 24 July 2009 00:05 |
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Crimson
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I don't have a problem with a server reading private messages. I have a problem with a server reading private messages and NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT IT. You should be able to make an informed decision about where you decide to play.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396084 is a reply to message #371075] |
Fri, 24 July 2009 05:16 |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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That being said, I think TK2 is about the only server that auto announces that we keep track of player's nicknames and ip's to counter cheating (via ipbot).
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396123 is a reply to message #396084] |
Fri, 24 July 2009 14:18 |
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Dover
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Location: Monterey, California
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| Goztow wrote on Fri, 24 July 2009 05:16 |
That being said, I think TK2 is about the only server that auto announces that we keep track of player's nicknames and ip's to counter cheating (via ipbot).
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I guess all servers should start announcing that, right after they start announcing that MVP is awarded to the top player and that the objective is to destroy the enemy base.
Sarcasm aside, aren't somethings just too obvious to announce?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396135 is a reply to message #396124] |
Fri, 24 July 2009 16:10 |
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Dover
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Fri, 24 July 2009 14:19 |
This has to be the most ridiculous debate.
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This topic is only mildly shitty by Heated Discussion standards. It sees garbage like "Is Obama's Muslimness Bad?" every other thread. It's to be expected.
| jnz wrote on Fri, 24 July 2009 15:31 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Fri, 24 July 2009 22:19 |
This has to be the most ridiculous debate.
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It certainly is, since you actually don't automatically have "rights" on a renegade server.
I may not give permission for my IP address and my serial to be shared. It still is, and there is nothing that I or anyone can do about that.
You can actually pinpoint my hometown and country just from me joining a server, did I give them permission to do that? Not at all, but if they wanted they would do so anyway.
Like I said: No rights, and you don't deserve any either. This is a virtual world, not the real world.
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And it's not just Renegade. Even in games without dedicated servers (I can personally speak for StarCraft) you can pinpoint someone's house with simple and freely-available tools. People who expect to recieve any privacy online need to L2Internet.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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[Updated on: Fri, 24 July 2009 16:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396148 is a reply to message #371075] |
Fri, 24 July 2009 20:50 |
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R315r4z0r
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You're not understanding my point.
People automatically agree to share their IP once they decide connect to the internet, regardless if its a game or not.
But the fact of the matter of what I'm getting at is that it's called a private message. What kind of private message isn't private?
Also, I didn't mean "rights" as in what you can and can't do in the game but rather what you can and shouldn't do as a person. You're taking the game a little too seriously when you start monitoring people's private conversations.
I would personally much rather play on a server with cheaters than on a server that moderates private messages. Fighting cheaters can be enjoyable. Knowing someone is reading something I don't want them to isn't.
@ Dover:
I wouldn't consider "pinpointing someone's house" as vital private info. People give their home addresses out over the internet everyday..
[Updated on: Fri, 24 July 2009 20:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396150 is a reply to message #396148] |
Fri, 24 July 2009 21:03 |
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HaTe
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Fri, 24 July 2009 22:50 |
I would personally much rather play on a server with cheaters than on a server that moderates private messages. Fighting cheaters can be enjoyable. Knowing someone is reading something I don't want them to isn't.
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I personally found this funny to read, that someone would actually think like that. There are many other ways to talk to someone in private, just because you can't in some renegade servers, you would rather play with cheaters?
Well, i too see both sides of it too, but i favor the let admins and owners read pm's only. Some people honestly do not know how to take a screen shot, and if some1 was pm spamming them, they're only way to tell someone about it would be in f2 chat. In that case, the admins and owners can read the pm's to verify this, and settle it. In any other case, i do not see why reading pm's would be needed at all by any mods, admins, or owners.
As many have said though, it would be nice to know which servers you do have your privacy on, and which you don't. I know that at TMX, any mod (Half and up, not temps) can read anyones pm's at anytime in the admin channel, i find this to be unfair to the players. It is a security issue, but peoples privacy is more important than modding a game, in my opinion.
I also feel that you guys are making this into a WAY bigger deal than it is, maybe for attention, maybe to get a point across, maybe for a +1 post, idk. But seriously, are you going to be telling someone something THAT private in a Renegade server anyway? If so, then i understand why you would be mad, but i also wonder why you would use a game to communicate privately.
I don't know, that's just my point of view, as a long time Renagade player and mod  .
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
[Updated on: Fri, 24 July 2009 21:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396168 is a reply to message #396148] |
Sat, 25 July 2009 04:39 |
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jnz
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 25 July 2009 04:50 |
People automatically agree to share their IP once they decide connect to the internet, regardless if its a game or not.
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...but I never gave them permission to use my serial, or find my hometown and country.
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 25 July 2009 04:50 |
Also, I didn't mean "rights" as in what you can and can't do in the game but rather what you can and shouldn't do as a person. You're taking the game a little too seriously when you start monitoring people's private conversations.
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I could say that you're taking the game to seriously because the server owner wants to see private messages, which they have every right to do. Like I also said, the players have no right for it to be hidden either.
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 25 July 2009 04:50 |
I would personally much rather play on a server with cheaters than on a server that moderates private messages. Fighting cheaters can be enjoyable. Knowing someone is reading something I don't want them to isn't.
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Tough luck if they don't tell you. Which again, you have no right to see that infomation and the server owner reserves the right not to give it to you.
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 25 July 2009 04:50 |
I wouldn't consider "pinpointing someone's house" as vital private info. People give their home addresses out over the internet everyday..
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I would only give out my home address if a website -needed- it. If I am buying something for example, and there are very strict laws governing these websites not to give it out.
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396169 is a reply to message #396148] |
Sat, 25 July 2009 04:47 |
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Goztow
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Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 25 July 2009 05:50 |
You're not understanding my point.
People automatically agree to share their IP once they decide connect to the internet, regardless if its a game or not.
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Yes, they do, they do not agree automatically for that information to be stored in a central place and for it to be shared between server owners.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The PM discussion from Rengooey - cleared [message #396171 is a reply to message #396148] |
Sat, 25 July 2009 05:59 |
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Dover
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Fri, 24 July 2009 20:50 |
@ Dover:
I wouldn't consider "pinpointing someone's house" as vital private info. People give their home addresses out over the internet everyday..
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Yet it seems to distress people when I say something like "What's it like up there in Vancouver?" in the middle of a StarCraft game when they haven't told me any information about themselves.
| Goztow wrote on Sat, 25 July 2009 04:47 |
Yes, they do, they do not agree automatically for that information to be stored in a central place and for it to be shared between server owners.
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Does agreement even come into the picture? Your information is being logged and probably shared, whether or not you agree to it. That's just the way the system works. Nobody was ever told otherwise.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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