Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Why Is Renegade so Different to C&C tiberian Dawn?
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| Re: Why Is Renegade so Different to C&C tiberian Dawn? [message #365673 is a reply to message #365671] |
Thu, 01 January 2009 17:50   |
_SSnipe_
Messages: 4121
Registered: May 2007
Location: Riverside Southern Califo...
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General (4 Stars) |
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| BlueThen wrote on Thu, 01 January 2009 16:47 |
| SSnipe wrote on Thu, 01 January 2009 18:34 |
wtf is C&C tiberian Dawn?
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Can you use google at least ONCE in your life for a change?
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Well this thread is about it so i can ask here u know seems like u the only one complaining it got answers get over it
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| Re: Why Is Renegade so Different to C&C tiberian Dawn? [message #365681 is a reply to message #365673] |
Thu, 01 January 2009 18:20 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261
Registered: March 2006
Location: Maryland
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General (1 Star) |
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| SSnipe wrote on Thu, 01 January 2009 19:50 |
| BlueThen wrote on Thu, 01 January 2009 16:47 |
| SSnipe wrote on Thu, 01 January 2009 18:34 |
wtf is C&C tiberian Dawn?
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Can you use google at least ONCE in your life for a change?
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Well this thread is about it so i can ask here u know seems like u the only one complaining it got answers get over it
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TD is another name for the original C&C. The strategy game Renegade is based on? From 1995?
yeah
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| Re: Why Is Renegade so Different to C&C tiberian Dawn? [message #365790 is a reply to message #365425] |
Fri, 02 January 2009 18:31 |
pawky
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Registered: December 2008
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Recruit |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 30 December 2008 09:31 |
| 0rca234 wrote on Tue, 30 December 2008 06:24 |
Thats a good point actually, but i also understand that alot of fan maps have tiberium that look much better than the tiberium in the Westwood maps.
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That's because fan maps are a lot more demanding than the default maps. Computers have evolved over the past years ever since the release of the game. People have gone above and beyond what was the limit of Renegade in 2002. That's why fan maps can have more things without slowing up.
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I dunno R3, I am not so sure about that, man.
Computers WERE powerful then too it's just that Renegade was Westwood's first FPS and they were venturing into new territory and most importantly were RUSHED into release leaving many things out.
Renegade graphics was garbage even by 2002 standards. Take the FPS game Red Faction which was released in 2001...a year earlier than Renegade. But Red Faction is 100 times better when it comes to graphics (among many other things)...this was one of the main reasons Renegade got negative graphics scores in reviews after it's release. The graphics are dated, bad netcode among many other glicthes and dumb and rather some plain VERY SILLY LOOKIN guns.
Here is my big rant about Ren's guns:
Toggle Spoiler
One of the main things when it comes to eye candy in a FPS game is the weapons. They HAVE to look badass and sound badass and it SHOULD make the player feel badass when mowing down the enemies. Unfortunately this does not happen in Renegade. Even the PIC looks rather plain depsite it trying very hard to look big. Ren's weapons are plain looking and sound underpowered. The rocket launcher is barely satisfying. And the Raptor assault rifle is SO shameful I can't even believe it is in a FPS game...the default sound should have been changed. I don't even want to tell you how SO FAKE the officer chaingun looks like when firing more like 3d sprites! I don't even want to mention the shotgun...WHAT WERE THEY THINKING LOL!
Probably the most decent weapon in Ren when it comes to graphics were the Repair gun with satisfying repair sound, laser chain gun for looking badass, feeling badass, and satisfying laser/shooting animations + sound, and Ramjet which feels big and shoots with a whooping sounding head-spliting noise.
Every other gun is poor. Even the green toothpick shooter of Patch and Sydney Tib rifle, they were great concepts but sucked when it comes to graphics.
If you buy any of the beam weapons in Renegade (Laser rifle, Railun, PIC, Tib rifle, Repair gun) and you will see that the fire is not coming from the barrel but from poorly placed emitter under or above the barrel!
Well going back on topic:
They could have done the same for Tib crystals too.
Also did you hear when you drive/walk over Tiberium in Renegade, you hear the sound of crystals being crushed? But yet for some reason Tiberium looks like the way it does. Yet, default Tib fields in WW maps does have a few crystals scattered about:
I am sure even the whole Harvester processing animations were seriously considered. I highly doubt that the people who invented Command & Conquer forgot about the harvester gathering animations when making a first person conversion of their RTS games. The Harv's had those 2 arms and has those 2 round crusher drums mounted on the front to crush gathered Tib crystals. I think only a later patch or something made the arms move...WW had them stuck by default (I am not sure, I maybe wrong).
My guess would be they found having a mass of Tiberium crystal polygons on the Tib field slowed down the frame rate so they took it out...that's my guess. Or they just did not have time to tune it up. Also the entire Harv gathering Tib would have taken a toll in frame rates. They probably were going to perfect all that for release but they were rushed.
Anyway, the fact remains Ren graphics was poor in 2002 and there was no computational limits as to what WW could have done with what the fans have done. If anything for improvement, Renegade could have been better if it had been given more time but it was a rushed product too we have to remember. So we have to keep that in mind. IMHO, it was probably released a year (or atleast 8 months) too early.
Also, WW's default maps are very carefully made by professional game level designers and focus on gameplay so the vehicles, characters, and bases can be used to bring out the game. This is why WW maps are small and action-packed. 95% of fanmaps are total crap: giant empty spaces full of buildings/objects/scenery and the enemy base can be found after pointlessly travelling for 50 miles in THAT --> direction! I love fanmaps though...hope no one is offended...just that except a few, most can't be used for intense C&C mode type games 
[Updated on: Fri, 02 January 2009 18:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Why Is Renegade so Different to C&C tiberian Dawn? [message #367056 is a reply to message #365661] |
Mon, 12 January 2009 09:56 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Thu, 01 January 2009 18:31 |
Well, if you think about it, if they put all the units in, Nod would be seriously over-powered...
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Lies. Notice how the GDI MLRS sucks in comparison to what it was in TD. A simple way to fix this all would be:
-Include the Recon Bike. It'd essentially serve as a faster, lighter, and more anti-vehicle (Therefore, anti-harvester for early game) buggy. Unlike the buggy, it'd actually still be somewhat USEFUL late game.
-Make MLRS turrets able to rotate. Up the cost to what it was in TD. Possibly make missiles do slightly more damage with more splash radius.
-Make artillery's turret unable to rotate (It was at one point going to look WAY more like it was in TD, but due to last minute changes to balance, they made it this way), and make the shell arc more (So it'd require more aiming adjustments than it currently does).
-Include the SSM. Give it two missiles (I seriously never got why it had one in Renegade) that have a very long reload time, but both can be fired in quick succession. The splash radius should be fairly large, and the range very long. Its health would be fairly low though, so it'd be prone to alot of things still.
This makes early game arty/MLRS whoring less of a problem, too.
@TANKY: Not necessarily, they actually upped the graphics a little because of the late release date... which, ironically, pushed the release date even further, AFAIK. Pretty sure they planned more dynamic lighting though, which IMO would have made things look WAY better.
As for the tiberium thing, again, not really true. They could have (And, IMO, should have) made it an option for graphics that enable them only at a certain detail level (High, medium, whatever), or by a checkbox. Surely, making a simple little crystal can't be more than 8 poly's. Yeah, there'd be more, but ultimately, they'd just end up being as much as a single Renegade vehicle, considering the tiny size of the fields.
@People saying Renegade was rushed:Yes, it was a BIT rushed. But a whole lot of you seem to get this idea that it was super rushed within the timespan of 6 months, like the recent stream of Dragonball Z games. Renegade wasn't. It was meant to be released in 2000, got delayed, needed graphics updates, got delayed again, and eventually had to be released in early 2002.
On top of this, Westwood wanted a LOT of features in Renegade. Yeah, it would have been GREAT to have them all, I agree. But think of it this way, you're a publisher, have had trailers and various info given out about a game that has had info on it for several years now that was MEANT to be released years ago, is taking a good bit of money to develop, and it still isn't done. While it was really a bad business decision in the end, I don't think EA felt like they should really risk losing more money on it for a few more players. And you sort of can't blame them for that.
I mean, look at Tiberian Sun. Tiberian Sun had a TON of features planned for it, and various other units. This didn't make it a bad game though (Except for the glitches which WAS annoying, but that'll always happen). It just means Renegade had too many things Westwood wanted for it that couldn't be done.
In short, Westwood was very much so a visionary game company. Sadly, they were like a person who majored in Philosophy, and ends up having to work at a McDonalds. It sucks ass, they have great ideas, but in the end they're limited in what they can do.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Why Is Renegade so Different to C&C tiberian Dawn? [message #368914 is a reply to message #368910] |
Sun, 25 January 2009 15:11 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Nightma12 wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 16:06 |
the BETA looked ALOT more like TD than Ren does =/
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Yeah, then they "updated" the graphics, and then everything looked way different.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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they had everything, even a animation to enter vehicles, displaying charackters in vehicles etc. 
