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Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362006] Mon, 08 December 2008 17:02 Go to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Hi all,

I asked several questions in this forum for a map I been making. Some people asked me to put some screenshots here.

Sciencepark is an studenthousing project in Amsterdam. I was an electrician over there in the building progress.

In that time I also was playing Renegade again and I had the idea that this map was good for several types of gameplay.

With many thanks to the people who made and post on renhelp.net and this forum (reading (very)old topics and posting) I created a begin of the map. I restarted several times because i always thought it could better. And the mapsize(kb) always get smaller each time.

For example: In the beginning I made the floor in many meshes. Now the floor is one singel mesh.

The reallife building has 721 appartments. 6 elevators. etc etc.

index.php?t=getfile&id=8663&private=0

The glass wall is better to be seen here as in the other topic.
A lot skinning had to be done also but I want to wait till the last because I saw that I had some problems to change meshes that are skinned/textured. The glass wall is ok now so I skinned it.


index.php?t=getfile&id=8664&private=0

This side is ok now to so I textured that also. It is mad fromtwo meshes. Each window is a mesh to and breakable.


index.php?t=getfile&id=8665&private=0

Between the floors there wil come appartmens. How many depends on the size of the file. I dont want it to be huge. Because I worked in it so I have al the autocad drawings on my computer. The measurements are to a cm the same like the real building.


index.php?t=getfile&id=8666&private=0

This is the shape of the building. It can be use for close combat CTF or you name it. Dont pay attention to the land around it. I had to make something to test the map someimes.


index.php?t=getfile&id=8667&private=0

A floor is a mesh. With boolean I mad some holes for the stairs. First I mad real stairs. My filesice (mix) become 75 Mb. Smile So I mad a stair from two meshes ( could be one if I had calculated it right). With boolean I will also make the holes for the alevator.


I made this topic to let you al see where I am busy on so you know a bit why my questions are. Mostly I try to find the answers in older topics or tuts. Why I make the map? Just for fun. I like to be busy on 3d drawing. So i wanted a subject and made a project out of it. I am now busy on anothe building. Maybe I wil do the same with that. But for now, I have my hands full with this one.

Thx for your help and attention.

(sorry for the poor english)

Link: (dutch)About sciencepark.
http://www.uva.nl/huisvesting/watergraafsmeer.cfm/3C6A42D9-21F4-4543-966D6A02945 1A11D

If you have a question, tip or just something to say about it, please do.

GrTz Rene


Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362012 is a reply to message #362006] Mon, 08 December 2008 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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Holy shit, that's TERRIBLE. Sorry, but it's just a bunch of crap thrown together. Use extrude, weld, and please, do NOT use more than 2 poly's per flat surface (It's technically two since a plane is two triangles, but yeah).

Maybe I'm wrong about the poly usage, but, show wireframe pics from gmax.


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Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362017 is a reply to message #362012] Mon, 08 December 2008 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 18:31

Holy shit, that's TERRIBLE. Sorry, but it's just a bunch of crap thrown together. Use extrude, weld, and please, do NOT use more than 2 poly's per flat surface (It's technically two since a plane is two triangles, but yeah).

Maybe I'm wrong about the poly usage, but, show wireframe pics from gmax.


Offtopic by RedOne

I know I asked for replies but holy shit your reply is terrible. Did you read the text?? There was written that i started several times again and each time a bit better. maybe just maybe you can think that I am not that long busy with this. And most important where have you learned to communicate??? If I was another type of person I could think I am totaly no good.

I have fun in what I do. When my boss talks to me like that in front of me he has a problem. That problem is me. What I trying to say is: Dont try to kick somebody into the ground, there are other ways to tell somebody that you dont like what you see. Maybe I am proud of my work and can use some tips to make it better. Gaming is for pleasure and a forum is helps me with this but not like how you start your reply


Its not a bunch of crap thrown together i think. The floors are made editable polies where I replaced the vertexes. Its one box. The wals with the windows are boxes editted with boolean. The glass wall is one mesh editted with boolean. The stairs are plains editted by replace the vertexes. There could be things that can be done better. But the best school is to do it i guess.

Di3Hard replied to me on another topic about boolean. I have to try that.

But what part you want to see in wireframe??? Then I can make a screenshot of it. Extrude and weld i am not sure if i can and how to use it. And what do you mean bij not more then 2 poly's per flatsurface??

Anyway. Thanks for the reply

GrTz Red

Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362019 is a reply to message #362012] Mon, 08 December 2008 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
samous is currently offline  samous
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Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 16:31

Holy shit, that's TERRIBLE. Sorry, but it's just a bunch of crap thrown together. Use extrude, weld, and please, do NOT use more than 2 poly's per flat surface (It's technically two since a plane is two triangles, but yeah).

Maybe I'm wrong about the poly usage, but, show wireframe pics from gmax.


How could you say that, it looks awsome! This looks like it will be a verry well detailed map, an a really cool one at that.

=samous

-good luck finishing it


Samous Ind. modding group website:
http://samous.webs.com/img/Capture.PNG

and Facebook Page: here
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362022 is a reply to message #362019] Mon, 08 December 2008 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altzan is currently offline  Altzan
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samous wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:43

Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 16:31

Holy shit, that's TERRIBLE. Sorry, but it's just a bunch of crap thrown together. Use extrude, weld, and please, do NOT use more than 2 poly's per flat surface (It's technically two since a plane is two triangles, but yeah).

Maybe I'm wrong about the poly usage, but, show wireframe pics from gmax.


How could you say that, it looks awsome! This looks like it will be a verry well detailed map, an a really cool one at that.

=samous

-good luck finishing it


It does look nice, I agree. But Cabal is right in terms of the procedures of modeling. If you don't try to use the least amount of poly's possible it will come out laggy and large in filesize. If you can learn to model using extrude, weld, and so on, it will be harder to make but will come out ultimately much nicer in the end.

RedOne, did you check out the Advanced Gmax Tutorials at RenHelp? They explain a LOT and are very helpful.


I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362037 is a reply to message #362017] Mon, 08 December 2008 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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RedOne wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:34


I know I asked for replies but holy shit your reply is terrible. Did you read the text?? There was written that i started several times again and each time a bit better. maybe just maybe you can think that I am not that long busy with this. And most important where have you learned to communicate??? If I was another type of person I could think I am totaly no good.

Perhaps I could have worded it better, but it's the internet. When you post your work, expect criticism of any kind.

RedOne wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:34

Its not a bunch of crap thrown together i think. The floors are made editable polies where I replaced the vertexes. Its one box. The wals with the windows are boxes editted with boolean. The glass wall is one mesh editted with boolean. The stairs are plains editted by replace the vertexes. There could be things that can be done better. But the best school is to do it i guess.

You started on the exterior first, and it's fairly blocky. Not to mention, you shouldn't even really be texturing it atall or anything until the model is pretty much finished. I'll go into this later

RedOne wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:34

Di3Hard replied to me on another topic about boolean. I have to try that.

Don't. Boolean isn't really a great tool, as it makes poly's in random places. I reccomend simply extruding around where you want the holes, rather than using boolean. It really does look better, even if a bit more time consuming. Do note that polygons affect lighting. So if you have random poly's around the map, they'll show with lighting.

RedOne wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:34

But what part you want to see in wireframe??? Then I can make a screenshot of it. Extrude and weld i am not sure if i can and how to use it. And what do you mean bij not more then 2 poly's per flatsurface??

Take various screenshots of the map. Maybe not even necessarily in wireframe, but hit F4 (Or F2, I can't remember which, lol) in gmax, and it'll show the edges of your mesh.

Now, I should probably give you a little tutorial on how those features work.

Extrude is pretty simple. Select an edge in edge selection mode with an editable mesh. Then, simply hold shift, and drag the edge you selected in the direction you wish to make another plane.

Welding is done in vertex editing mode. You basically select various vertexes, and go down to the welding feature in gmax. Then, there should be a button called "Selection", and some numbers next to it. The numbers mean how close the vertexes must be to weld them, so I recommend choosing a really small number, like 0.001. This way, the vertexes have to be in the same location to weld them.

Welding basically means, two or more vertexes become one vertex.

Blazea's tutorials on renhelp should explain extruding and welding and other nifty features better. Here's the links.

http://renhelp.net/index.php?mod=Tutorials&action=view&id=120

http://renhelp.net/index.php?mod=Tutorials&action=view&id=121

IMO, welding and extruding are two basic necessities everyone who does 3d editing should know.


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Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362075 is a reply to message #362006] Mon, 08 December 2008 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altzan is currently offline  Altzan
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RedOne, don't get discouraged. You have skill. Just work to learn new ways and techniques, do your best, and there's no limit to what you can model Thumbs Up

I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire

[Updated on: Tue, 09 December 2008 06:23]

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Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362119 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Hi there thanx for your replies.

I have to go to work now but when I am back I wil read them carefully and give my answer. I hope to learn something out of it where I can.

GrTz Red
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362170 is a reply to message #362019] Tue, 09 December 2008 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Quote:

How could you say that, it looks awsome! This looks like it will be a verry well detailed map, an a really cool one at that.

=samous

-good luck finishing it


Thx. I will need it I guess:) I read a lot of hints under your reply. I can use them.

GrTz Red
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362172 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ErroR is currently offline  ErroR
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i think you should try using google sketch up since it's used in more architectural purposes, and it can export 3ds which can be imported with gmax
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362173 is a reply to message #362022] Tue, 09 December 2008 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Quote:

It does look nice, I agree. But Cabal is right in terms of the procedures of modeling. If you don't try to use the least amount of poly's possible it will come out laggy and large in filesize. If you can learn to model using extrude, weld, and so on, it will be harder to make but will come out ultimately much nicer in the end.


He can be right thats something I wont start a discusion about. Yesterdayevening after his reply I looked back in my files and found where he was talking about i think. But I am kind of a beginner so its a bit new to me. I restarted a few times to do it differtent so my filesize get less high.

Quote:

RedOne, did you check out the Advanced Gmax Tutorials at RenHelp? They explain a LOT and are very helpful.


I learned a by using the RenHelp. I shall read that one. only you talk about things that is already new for me like welding. And I am thinking about how to use extrude in the map.

Thx

GrTz Rene
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362176 is a reply to message #362037] Tue, 09 December 2008 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Quote:

Perhaps I could have worded it better, but it's the internet. When you post your work, expect criticism of any kind.


I am thankful for your reply and I expected criticism of any kind but the way you started your reply was not very nice. Later in the reply you proofed dat you can be nice and tell me where I go wrong in a way that I can do someting with it.

Quote:

You started on the exterior first, and it's fairly blocky. Not to mention, you shouldn't even really be texturing it atall or anything until the model is pretty much finished. I'll go into this later

Yes I did started on the exterior. But the building is very blocky. And what you say about texturing is right to. I have the same experience now. But sometime I had to look if it was the right texture. Thats why I didnt textured the most of it.


Quote:

Don't. Boolean isn't really a great tool, as it makes poly's in random places. I reccomend simply extruding around where you want the holes, rather than using boolean. It really does look better, even if a bit more time consuming. Do note that polygons affect lighting. So if you have random poly's around the map, they'll show with lighting..


Thats what i have seen to. In the part I did with boolean I get crazy of the poly's it added. That what I checked yesterday after your reply. I cant send some scrshot now because I am not at home now. When I am I will.


Quote:

Take various screenshots of the map. Maybe not even necessarily in wireframe, but hit F4 (Or F2, I can't remember which, lol) in gmax, and it'll show the edges of your mesh
.

I will when I am at home Smile

Quote:


Now, I should probably give you a little tutorial on how those features work.


Very Happy

Quote:


Extrude is pretty simple. Select an edge in edge selection mode with an editable mesh. Then, simply hold shift, and drag the edge you selected in the direction you wish to make another plane.


Can I use keyboardinput on this?? I get my maesurements from a autocadfile.

Quote:

Welding is done in vertex editing mode. You basically select various vertexes, and go down to the welding feature in gmax. Then, there should be a button called "Selection", and some numbers next to it. The numbers mean how close the vertexes must be to weld them, so I recommend choosing a really small number, like 0.001. This way, the vertexes have to be in the same location to weld them.

Welding basically means, two or more vertexes become one vertex.

Blazea's tutorials on renhelp should explain extruding and welding and other nifty features better. Here's the links.

http://renhelp.net/index.php?mod=Tutorials&action=view&id=120

http://renhelp.net/index.php?mod=Tutorials&action=view&id=121

IMO, welding and extruding are two basic necessities everyone who does 3d editing should know.


Thx for this very much. Its more logical to me now. I shall try it very very soon. Is there a opposite of welding to. If I have a box of a plane and I want to add a vertex??

Thx again

GrTz Red
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362178 is a reply to message #362172] Tue, 09 December 2008 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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ErroR wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:30

i think you should try using google sketch up since it's used in more architectural purposes, and it can export 3ds which can be imported with gmax


Thx I will Smile

GrTz Rene
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362180 is a reply to message #362075] Tue, 09 December 2008 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Altzan wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:25

RedOne, don't get discouraged. You have skill. Just work to learn new ways and techniques, do your best, and there's no limit to what you can model Thumbs Up


Thx Altzan. I will try. I get in this topic that much info that my head is turning upsidedown Smile

GrTz Rene
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362196 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R315r4z0r is currently offline  R315r4z0r
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Any small flat surface, you don't want more than 2 or 3 polys because too many will result in pointless amounts of processing that just lags the game.

However, large flat surfaces (like ceilings, floors, ground, ect) require a lot more polys to look good, even if it is completely flat. The reason being is that you wont be able to do any vertex lighting or have any fog on your map.

Fog and lighting works on a per-vertex basis. The more polys (and vertexes) you have, the better looking and more accurate the lighting and fog spread will be. If you barely have any polys, it will end up looking horrible.
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362222 is a reply to message #362196] Tue, 09 December 2008 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 12:57

Any small flat surface, you don't want more than 2 or 3 polys because too many will result in pointless amounts of processing that just lags the game.

However, large flat surfaces (like ceilings, floors, ground, ect) require a lot more polys to look good, even if it is completely flat. The reason being is that you wont be able to do any vertex lighting or have any fog on your map.

Fog and lighting works on a per-vertex basis. The more polys (and vertexes) you have, the better looking and more accurate the lighting and fog spread will be. If you barely have any polys, it will end up looking horrible.



When do I know if i have 2 or 3 poly's.?? The floors I made was 1 small and long box. I converted to edit.ply. And with the vertexes I made it this shape because i needed this shape. Every corner i needed 2 vertexes en because it was a box i needed 4 vertexes. I cant do less vertexes. But was it beter here to make a plane and do extrude??

I made a model and in the replies it seems i did it not very logical. And thats ok i kope to learne to make it better.

I made some screenshots in gmax (however since this afternoon i have 3ds max Cool. I wil reply with the screenshots.

Thx for reply

GrTz Red
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362224 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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I was asked to post some screenshots from gmax. I did it with F4 <grin> I hope this is what you want to see.

The most important pieces are the floors (grey). Here I made a box and converted to poly. With the vertexes I shaped it. With help of keyboard input. The holes for stairs were made with boolean.index.php?t=getfile&id=8684&private=0


The wall with windows and indeed Cabal. Lots of poly's!.
index.php?t=getfile&id=8685&private=0


Next the stairs. Also a edit. Poly only with a plane. By keyboard input replaced the vertexes to get this shape.
index.php?t=getfile&id=8686&private=0

And the glass wall. Was a box. With boolean I made it like this. It is one box.
index.php?t=getfile&id=8687&private=0

I hope Cabal this what you wanted\

GrTz Red
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362232 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altzan is currently offline  Altzan
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He wanted them in wireframe mode.

In the view window, the corner where it says Top, Side, User, Perspective, (Whatever it says), right click on that word and choose wireframe.


I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362235 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MGamer is currently offline  MGamer
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Just post the poly count....

rawr.....
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362241 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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index.php?t=getfile&id=8689&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=8690&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=8691&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=8692&private=0

like this???
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362242 is a reply to message #362235] Tue, 09 December 2008 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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MGamer wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 15:58

Just post the poly count....



???

How?? cant find

GrTz Red
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362264 is a reply to message #362241] Tue, 09 December 2008 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altzan is currently offline  Altzan
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RedOne wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 17:19



like this???


Correct Thumbs Up

I don't know how to see poly count either Huh


I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362269 is a reply to message #362006] Tue, 09 December 2008 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Reaver11 is currently offline  Reaver11
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In renx goto the hammer and click polycounter Razz (I think it is the same for 3ds im not sure)
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362400 is a reply to message #362269] Wed, 10 December 2008 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedOne is currently offline  RedOne
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Reaver11 wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 17:34

In renx goto the hammer and click polycounter Razz (I think it is the same for 3ds im not sure)



index.php?t=getfile&id=8703&private=0

Like this i guess,

thx for explaining

Grtz Red
Re: Sciencepark Renegademap [message #362402 is a reply to message #362006] Wed, 10 December 2008 08:32 Go to previous message
Reaver11 is currently offline  Reaver11
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Yep you have 6031 polys and 0 selected atm. (if you select a object and then check the poly counter it will show it in the above thingy. you can also select multiple)

[Updated on: Wed, 10 December 2008 08:32]

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