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Re: prop 8 california passes [message #358254 is a reply to message #358213] Wed, 12 November 2008 05:22 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

I have no problem with gays and their lifestyle. But gay marriage is not just an issue that affects only gays. It asks cooperation from the majority by urging them to change their value system.

No, it doesn't. It DOES NOT, repeat DOES NOT, affect you no matter how determined some people are to wish it did. You do not have to change your value system.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

The reason? Not that the majority is being oppressive. It's far from that. I don't think it is appropriate to suggest that this is a case where a certain majority is oppressing the minority. It is also not too fair to suggest that this issue is comparable to the issue of women voters and Blacks.

Women perhaps; you're dead wrong to say it's not comparable to racial intolerance. The reason your country is so backward in the field of equal rights on sexuality is pretty much exactly the same reason it took you so fucking disgracefully long to get equal rights on grounds of race. Namely religion.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

This issue goes right into the fundamental concept of human life for the past thousands of years.

Rhetoric.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

Given the huge numbers of the general religious population in the US, it would be an uphill struggle for homosexuals to gain "acceptance" by a group of people who have an entirely different value system. While it may seem that this majority is trying to preserve the integrity of their value system by denying others their right to practice their own, so small and tightly packed is the society that the change demanded is too great and fundamental that they simply cannot cooperate.

What do you mean "while it may seem..."? It doesn't need to seem like that; it is PRECISELY that.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

If you think this is the majority oppressing a minority, I would say it is merely a false illusion. It is more the case of the majority reacting to the threat of eventual subjugation by a minority in the near future.

As opposed to the subjugation that religion has imposed upon pretty much every society throughout history wherever and whenever it has the strength to be able to?

Including your country right now?

That is real subjugation. "Eventual subjugation" by a homosexual minority? You're crazy.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

Christian parents want to impart Christian values to their kids. This applies to people of all faiths.

Yep, and the irony is the people who do this immoral action (indoctrination of children) are always the same dipshits who keep whining about homosexuality on "moral" grounds, even though there has never, ever been a convincing moral argument against homosexuality. It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

When in the future (if gay marriages are "legalized"), their kid asks them why one of his friends has 2 dads or 2 moms, what the heck are they going to say? You have got to be quite bigoted and indifferent if you do not see the conflict of ideals there.

As opposed to someone asking me why my parents think the world was made in a week by a celestial superbeing 6000 years ago? I personally think it would be far less embarrassing to have two dads.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

Saying "boooo religion" is not a good approach to solve the problem.

It's a good start, since religion is once again standing firmly in the way of progress.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

Sure it is inferred but they do not want to impose anything...they just will not cooperate with gay marriage and amend their lifestyle to accept it because it severely compromises their value system.

I'll just repeat the fact that it does not "compromise" your value system, no matter how hard you have convinced yourself it does. You do not even have to "accept" it if you want...

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

I probably won't cooperate either. I could care less if you lived right next to my house and played with a dick the night before but then when you bring your kid along with his other dad to the bustop in the morning, I don't want to be anywhere nearby with MY kid.

I hear you, I don't particularly want to be around intolerant religious nutcases either; difference is you don't see me saying that it "compromises my value system" when a Christian walks past.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

I know you would say I am a "blowhard" and "intolerant" but then again, I believe in my Creator and the rules set forth.

You stone people to death for working on the Sabbath?
You think envy belongs in the 10 Commandments shortlist, but rape and slavery and cruelty to children don't?
You think someone can be punished for a crime committed by someone else?
You think the path to forgiveness is the torture and execution of someone else?

This is what your Bible says. I would go so far as to call these things morally despicable, and yet the same people who get their "morals" from such a nightmarish book love to rant about homosexuality on "moral" grounds (as if there has ever been a convincing moral argument against homosexuality... which there hasn't). Oh, the irony... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

I could give a thousand more examples where the conflict of ideals would come up.

What do you mean "more"? You haven't given one yet.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

Not a women voter issue, not anywhere close to being close to the racism suffered by Blacks, this is something deep but I think this issue will be resolved like the above issues in the decades to come as the religious population wears thin with each incoming generation and the liberal trend continues to spiral upwards.

We can only hope. America finally got something approaching equality on racial grounds despite religion's best efforts to the contrary; perhaps equality on sexual grounds will be next, but once again, religion is the only real impediment to sensible morality.

pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:09

In an era where the terms "homophobe" and "homohpobia" is freely and unjustly and stupidly applied to anyone who is not pro-homosexuality without respect to their values and religion, expect more opposition as you try to forcibly change the value system of the majority.

Again, I can only repeat the fact that your "value system" is NOT BEING FORCIBLY CHANGED. You're going to have to get your head around this.

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[Updated on: Wed, 12 November 2008 05:57]

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