Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Fixing... Points?
| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347873 is a reply to message #347856] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 08:05   |
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EvilWhiteDragon
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| mac wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 10:12 |
Hey guys,
Let me say a few words of the TT team leader, and about this issue.
It's not set in stone that we'll be fixing the ladder for this first patch. We're really focussing on the game and fixing issues, and we think this is m  ore important than the ladder, at this point. Everything that is being discussed are ideas. They're not final.
The truth is also that one can never satisfy everyone. Fixing the pointsfix will make one side go mad, not fixing it will make the other side go mad. That is why we're giving server owners the chance to disable it, because we're very well aware that it is a very controversial issue. That's also what testing is for. There will be extensive organized tests on the weekends for several months..
For those people who say noone has elected us to make a patch. I question you - if we're not doing it, who else is? It took me about 2 months to get this team together, and another few months to actually work out on where we're heading. All the best coders of this community are working together now towards one common goal. That's a first. If you really think we're heading in the wrong direction, then please come join us. I'm serious. If someone wants to contribute he's welcome.
There have been extensive talks with Electronic Arts about various things, including Source Code and Support. I'm not allowed to speak about details, but let's just say we're very happy with EA currently.
Regards,
mac
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mac is totally right. It is hard to even get everyone in the team to agree on things that need or don't need doing, so we don't expect the complete community to totaly agree with us.
The first eta will include controversial things like this, and if people complain, AFTER TESTING WITH AN OPEN MINDED SPIRIT, then we will probaly create a point unfix. But for the first beta, we are GOD of our own mod. After that we'll see how people responded and decide what needs doing before we ask EA to test this so it can be placed on the patcher
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347889 is a reply to message #347845] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 10:15 |
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cmatt42
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| liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 01:32 |
i don't recall the renegade community demanding a patch be made fixing all problems that exist
fixing physical bugs (on the map) will most likely be favored by 95% or more of the people, but changing the way the game is scored 6 years late won't sit well with most people
keep in mind the renegade community as a whole did not ask you to fix that
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The Renegade community initially did not ask them to fix anything. So they should just not fix anything, right?
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perhaps the majority likes it for reasons other than selfishness
it actually seems selfish of you to change the points system for everyone because a small number of people are unhappy with it, but by all means proceed
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You just took my statements and reworded them to suit your opinions. If you're going to do that, at least back it up.
GunKataGaming.net
[Updated on: Fri, 22 August 2008 10:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347957 is a reply to message #347955] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 16:18 |
Rocko
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| cmatt42 wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 18:10 |
Ooh, looks like it's not publicly available unless you bloat their user count; please try again.
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lol kinda dumb that you won't even consider looking at a petition that has about 50 signatures just because you won't take the 1 minute to register. I know the guys from mcd and they would not care at all about how many users their forums has lol.
black and proud
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347958 is a reply to message #346858] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 16:21 |
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sadukar09
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50 out of several thousand players? lol.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347961 is a reply to message #347958] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 16:24 |
Rocko
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Colonel |
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| sadukar09 wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 18:21 |
50 out of several thousand players? lol.
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are all those thousands of players even able to speak english, and even if they do speak english are any of them active enough that they will sign up to a website and specifically sign a petition against a patch? Think of the players that are actually in the community and talk, isn't 50 a pretty big chunk?
black and proud
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347963 is a reply to message #346858] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 16:31 |
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sadukar09
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50 out of several hundred who actually are involved in a Renegade gaming forum? Uh, no.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347967 is a reply to message #346858] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 17:05 |
gkl21
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Registered: May 2006
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I think it's just me seeing this, but it seems like only ONE server is whining about the pointfix. The ones with the pointfix on have proven that the pointfix does not matter. (Look at kongs data from jelly aow1 (was additional settings that made people), and n00bstories, and rencom for example)
All those 50 people are probably from one server aswell... Although registering just to see a poll, I prefer not to. If you are going to even try to make a point, at least try to make it fully public, not semi-public (aka require registration to even view it).
As far as it stands, the last comments was it was upto the server owner to enable / disable it. Simple as abc.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #347969 is a reply to message #347967] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 18:06 |
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Spoony
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I'll just repeat something I've said several times about Roni's petition - or rather, the people who've signed it.
Roni's petition says: let individual servers/communities/whatever choose whether they want the pointsfix or not, cos not everyone like it.
Firstly let me make it clear: in my view, this is a perfectly good demand. By all means for all I care, let a server/community/whatever choose for itself: pointsfix or no pointsfix.
Fine, I said. OK by me. In my community, Clanwars.cc, I'll take that choice, and I will use the pointsfix.
Here's the rub.
The same people who signed Roni's petition are constantly bitching at me for making this choice, in my own community... the choice the petition is supposed to give me.
A child of nine could see the absurd irony here. Any colour as long as it's black, right?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348006 is a reply to message #347969] |
Fri, 22 August 2008 23:03 |
Rocko
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| Spoony wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 20:06 |
I'll just repeat something I've said several times about Roni's petition - or rather, the people who've signed it.
Roni's petition says: let individual servers/communities/whatever choose whether they want the pointsfix or not, cos not everyone like it.
Firstly let me make it clear: in my view, this is a perfectly good demand. By all means for all I care, let a server/community/whatever choose for itself: pointsfix or no pointsfix.
Fine, I said. OK by me. In my community, Clanwars.cc, I'll take that choice, and I will use the pointsfix.
Here's the rub.
The same people who signed Roni's petition are constantly bitching at me for making this choice, in my own community... the choice the petition is supposed to give me.
A child of nine could see the absurd irony here. Any colour as long as it's black, right?
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thats more of a private community issue than anything though. people want the choice of whether or not to have it, including jelly himself the owner of the top servers in the game. You're forcing it on people of your own community. it's not necessarily that ironic if the same people who are against being forced to use points fix globally don't want it in the community they're in either. You can run the community how you want because you somehow own clanwars but you can't control people's feelings.
And how can people just ignore the petition topic because they can't take 1 minute to register and look at it? It's not even a poll, it's actual people making an individual post as their signature, making it more valid.
black and proud
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348021 is a reply to message #346858] |
Sat, 23 August 2008 00:33 |
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Goztow
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| Quote: |
Roni's petition says: let individual servers/communities/whatever choose whether they want the pointsfix or not, cos not everyone like it.
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| "mac" |
That is why we're giving server owners the chance to disable it, because we're very well aware that it is a very controversial issue.
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You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348037 is a reply to message #348005] |
Sat, 23 August 2008 03:59 |
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Spoony
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| rocko wrote |
thats more of a private community issue than anything though. people want the choice of whether or not to have it, including jelly himself the owner of the top servers in the game. You're forcing it on people of your own community. it's not necessarily that ironic if the same people who are against being forced to use points fix globally don't want it in the community they're in either. You can run the community how you want because you somehow own clanwars but you can't control people's feelings.
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This entirely contradicts itself.
Clearly the choice of whether to have it, if there is a choice (and I am not all opposed to there being one) has to be server-side. So the server chooses pointsfix or no pointsfix. Then, a player has a choice of which server to play in.
If a server doesn't like the settings at Jelly or N00bstories or Black-Cell or whatever... whether it is the time limit or the credits or the pointsfix, they can go to one of the many other servers out there in the hope of finding something more to their taste. Likewise, if someone doesn't like the settings that my admins choose to implement, whether it is the rules about pointpushing or flaming APCs or the fact I want to use the pointsfix, they are equally entirely welcome to play in one of the many other clanwar leagues that are available (well, if there aren't, that's hardly my fault...) or play funwars.
What you are saying is what half the people who signed roni's petition have demonstrated. It's NOT ENOUGH for them that each server gets to choose pointsfix... they want the pointsbug forced on everyone. How's that for irony? I've never actually tried - or even specifically wanted - to force the pointsfix onto a different community if they didn't want it. Yet the anti-pointsfix crowd ABSOLUTELY DO want to force the pointsbug on mine.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348076 is a reply to message #348021] |
Sat, 23 August 2008 09:20 |
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cmatt42
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 23 August 2008 01:06 |
for all you know it could be a link to a massive plecos website and i just used it to bluff and make you look lazy on the forums
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Right, so what's the point of reading it? Oh, it doesn't matter:
| Goztow wrote on Sat, 23 August 2008 02:33 |
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Roni's petition says: let individual servers/communities/whatever choose whether they want the pointsfix or not, cos not everyone like it.
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| "mac" |
That is why we're giving server owners the chance to disable it, because we're very well aware that it is a very controversial issue.
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GunKataGaming.net
[Updated on: Sat, 23 August 2008 09:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348154 is a reply to message #348037] |
Sat, 23 August 2008 19:24 |
Rocko
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 23 August 2008 05:59 |
| rocko wrote |
thats more of a private community issue than anything though. people want the choice of whether or not to have it, including jelly himself the owner of the top servers in the game. You're forcing it on people of your own community. it's not necessarily that ironic if the same people who are against being forced to use points fix globally don't want it in the community they're in either. You can run the community how you want because you somehow own clanwars but you can't control people's feelings.
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This entirely contradicts itself.
Clearly the choice of whether to have it, if there is a choice (and I am not all opposed to there being one) has to be server-side. So the server chooses pointsfix or no pointsfix. Then, a player has a choice of which server to play in.
If a server doesn't like the settings at Jelly or N00bstories or Black-Cell or whatever... whether it is the time limit or the credits or the pointsfix, they can go to one of the many other servers out there in the hope of finding something more to their taste. Likewise, if someone doesn't like the settings that my admins choose to implement, whether it is the rules about pointpushing or flaming APCs or the fact I want to use the pointsfix, they are equally entirely welcome to play in one of the many other clanwar leagues that are available (well, if there aren't, that's hardly my fault...) or play funwars.
What you are saying is what half the people who signed roni's petition have demonstrated. It's NOT ENOUGH for them that each server gets to choose pointsfix... they want the pointsbug forced on everyone. How's that for irony? I've never actually tried - or even specifically wanted - to force the pointsfix onto a different community if they didn't want it. Yet the anti-pointsfix crowd ABSOLUTELY DO want to force the pointsbug on mine.
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lol did you finally change your mind and decided to give people a choice, it's hard to tell where your stance is when you write out pages worth of essays including the same rhetoric all the time.
black and proud
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348157 is a reply to message #346858] |
Sat, 23 August 2008 19:45 |
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Crimson
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He wouldn't have to do that if the majority of people would READ and COMPREHEND what he's saying.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348188 is a reply to message #346858] |
Sun, 24 August 2008 11:43 |
Homey
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Spoony can do whatever he wants with his league if he owns it, pretty straight forward. Since there is no other league like it he can also change things even if the majority is against it. Changing things in a normal renegade community is NOT as straight forward. People can simply go elsewhere. with cw's, where are you gonna go? That to me is the reason why people are upset about it.
Homey
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348231 is a reply to message #348160] |
Sun, 24 August 2008 23:41 |
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Spoony
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 23 August 2008 22:30 |
spoony talks in circles and many people get fed up and don't read it all or get confused by the way he puts things and as a result misunderstand them
though that doesn't pertain to rocko; he's just surprised that spoony did a 180 on the subject
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Did I? I don't think I ever specifically said 'I'm gonna make damn sure you are never able to have a choice whether to use the pointsfix or not, and there's nothing you can do about it'. I did ask a very simple question: "if this did become mandatory, what exactly would be your problem with that?" In my mind that's a very legitimate question, especially considering all the benefits that the pointsfix offers, which are undeniable regardless of your overall opinion.
And if I did 'do a 180', why aren't the same people who so viciously flamed me... thanking me? sorry, but if people flew into a rage at the perceived notion that I was personally refusing to let them choose pointsfix or no pointsfix (which isn't really true anyway...) why aren't they content to hear that they will have a choice?
I think I already know the answer; it's what I said earlier. A lot of people AREN'T content with every server having a choice, pointsfix or no pointsfix. They won't be content as long as the pointsfix exists at all...
| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 23 August 2008 22:30 |
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Yet the anti-pointsfix crowd ABSOLUTELY DO want to force the pointsbug on mine.
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from what i've seen your league is telling you that they don't want the pointmod but you're putting it on anyways; the decision is entirely yours, but people don't understand at all why you're doing it especially when nearly your entire league is asking you not to
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Really? The entire league? You're sure Orca isn't just voting 20 times again?
Don't put much faith in polls; check the debate thread instead. You basically have six people bitching about the pointsfix. One of whom is a banned cheater. Two more have a history of outright disregarding rules anyway. Another actually tried to kill the league by means of sabotage when we banned his friend for pointpushing. Another has broken more league rules than every other person in the league put together. So out of those six people who are so vehemently anti-pointsfix, a grand total of ONE is in a position where I feel like I should consider his opinion at all.
| Homey wrote |
Spoony can do whatever he wants with his league if he owns it, pretty straight forward. Since there is no other league like it he can also change things even if the majority is against it. Changing things in a normal renegade community is NOT as straight forward. People can simply go elsewhere. with cw's, where are you gonna go? That to me is the reason why people are upset about it.
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I've heard this argument before, but what absolutely mystifies me is why some people seem convinced it supports their side instead of mine. It's basically an admission that I'm the only person who gives enough of a shit about clanwar ladders to actually host one... and apparently that is an argument against me.
Crimson will back me up on something, I think. There are a few settings at N00bstories server which I personally didn't like. I made a few threads expressing my opinions on the subject, and some people just said: host your own server if you don't like it. I may not like it, but I must admit that is an entirely reasonable thing to say... so I did just that. Perhaps instead of engaging people in civilised, logical debate on why the pointsfix makes gameplay more fair in the clanwars league, I should just take the "fuck off and make your own league" position instead...
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Sun, 24 August 2008 23:43] Report message to a moderator |
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