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will this disallow skins? [message #337172] Mon, 23 June 2008 23:39 Go to next message
Rocko
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Colonel
I hope so because they suck

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337202 is a reply to message #337172] Tue, 24 June 2008 04:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StealthEye is currently offline  StealthEye
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Depends on your settings. We plan to have a pure mode, limited mode and normal mode. Pure would stop all installed skins from working (you don't need to remove them to play on a pure server), limited mode would allow textures (skins), but disallow model changes and changes to other important data files, a bit like non-pure Renguard. Normal mode would allow everything, like Renegade is now. This is mostly for modders who want to test things on their own server without getting trouble with the anti cheat functions.

Note that these things might get changed since this part has not yet been implemented.


BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
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[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2008 04:38]

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337210 is a reply to message #337172] Tue, 24 June 2008 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trooprm02 is currently offline  trooprm02
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So hold on, the switch will be made server side? And lets say it was set to pure mode, that would be done server side and the player would still be able to join the server even with w3d models/skins, but it would disable them from being used? So everyone would be using default everything? Is the check for those files being done by scripts 4.0?

Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337214 is a reply to message #337172] Tue, 24 June 2008 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ghostshaw is currently offline  Ghostshaw
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Basically what it does is force the files to be loaded from either always.* or .mix files, and not from the actually directory.

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337236 is a reply to message #337214] Tue, 24 June 2008 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trooprm02 is currently offline  trooprm02
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Ghostshaw wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 09:06

Basically what it does is force the files to be loaded from either always.* or .mix files, and not from the actually directory.


I knew that, but that will be done server side? And how will that be managed client side? the scripts?


Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337267 is a reply to message #337172] Tue, 24 June 2008 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Speedy059 is currently offline  Speedy059
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From my understanding, it will be up to the server owners what will be allowed when it comes to skins.

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337292 is a reply to message #337202] Tue, 24 June 2008 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R315r4z0r is currently offline  R315r4z0r
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StealthEye wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 07:37

Depends on your settings. We plan to have a pure mode, limited mode and normal mode. Pure would stop all installed skins from working (you don't need to remove them to play on a pure server), limited mode would allow textures (skins), but disallow model changes and changes to other important data files, a bit like non-pure Renguard. Normal mode would allow everything, like Renegade is now. This is mostly for modders who want to test things on their own server without getting trouble with the anti cheat functions.

Note that these things might get changed since this part has not yet been implemented.

It is a very good idea.

But would cheaters simply be able to use a modified Always.dat with the texture files they want to use instead?

[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2008 15:25]

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337305 is a reply to message #337292] Tue, 24 June 2008 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Genesis2001
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R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 15:23

StealthEye wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 07:37

Depends on your settings. We plan to have a pure mode, limited mode and normal mode. Pure would stop all installed skins from working (you don't need to remove them to play on a pure server), limited mode would allow textures (skins), but disallow model changes and changes to other important data files, a bit like non-pure Renguard. Normal mode would allow everything, like Renegade is now. This is mostly for modders who want to test things on their own server without getting trouble with the anti cheat functions.

Note that these things might get changed since this part has not yet been implemented.

It is a very good idea.

But would cheaters simply be able to use a modified Always.dat with the texture files they want to use instead?



I'm sure there's a way to check for a hash of a "normal" Always.dat file and compare it with the hash of a modified one. That's a possible way to detect cheating attempts.

IDK though.

~Zack
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337314 is a reply to message #337172] Tue, 24 June 2008 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trooprm02 is currently offline  trooprm02
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Good point, my guess would be file size (like down to the single byte) but even that can be mimicked. I doubt there is a 100% way to check images files are the same...

Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337317 is a reply to message #337314] Tue, 24 June 2008 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starbuzzz
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All this may have a negative effect on the Renegade playerbase if you become too Nazi.

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337324 is a reply to message #337172] Tue, 24 June 2008 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
IronWarrior is currently offline  IronWarrior
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RG could check for modded always.dat so don't worry, that is covered.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 05:51]

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337358 is a reply to message #337172] Wed, 25 June 2008 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goztow is currently offline  Goztow
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There should be an option to only disallow skins for sbh, stank and custom sounds as they're the most important advantage skins.

You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337380 is a reply to message #337172] Wed, 25 June 2008 04:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StealthEye is currently offline  StealthEye
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We're still discussing the exact method internally, we are hoping to get a flexible solution to disallow certain textures only. The tricky bit is not figuring out what it should support, it's just how it is supposed to be implemented so that cheaters can not bypass it too easily while keeping as much flexibility as possible.

BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337441 is a reply to message #337358] Wed, 25 June 2008 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lone0001 is currently offline  Lone0001
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Goztow wrote on Wed, 25 June 2008 03:50

There should be an option to only disallow skins for sbh, stank and custom sounds as they're the most important advantage skins.


I'm surprised you never mentioned timed c4, remote c4, proxy c4, and beacons.


Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337446 is a reply to message #337441] Wed, 25 June 2008 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goztow is currently offline  Goztow
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{SB}Lone0001 wrote on Wed, 25 June 2008 18:54

Goztow wrote on Wed, 25 June 2008 03:50

There should be an option to only disallow skins for sbh, stank and custom sounds as they're the most important advantage skins.


I'm surprised you never mentioned timed c4, remote c4, proxy c4, and beacons.

You're absolutely right there. I'm surprised I didn't mention that as well Razz. But anyway: seems like we can make the choice Very Happy.


You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337508 is a reply to message #337446] Wed, 25 June 2008 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R315r4z0r is currently offline  R315r4z0r
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Beacons and C4 are already pretty visible, so I really don't care if someone else uses skins on them that scream "omg I'm right here, look out."

I think I'm pretty good spotting those things in the first place without skins, that is why it doesn't bother me that other people use skins to spot them when they can't on their own. Because it isn't really an advantage.
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337523 is a reply to message #337172] Thu, 26 June 2008 02:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StealthEye is currently offline  StealthEye
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Quote:

when they can't on their own
Therefore it's an advantage if they suddenly can. You don't mind someone who uses an aimbot because you can aim pretty good as well?


BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337526 is a reply to message #337172] Thu, 26 June 2008 02:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MrCookies is currently offline  MrCookies
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don't go to queer on this as running pure ren bores me after so long... changing everything makes it way better

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337535 is a reply to message #337172] Thu, 26 June 2008 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StealthEye is currently offline  StealthEye
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It's the server's descision in the end. If you don't like the config on one server go to another.

BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337536 is a reply to message #337172] Thu, 26 June 2008 05:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gwynzer is currently offline  Gwynzer
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I disagree with that.

There was a talk of Advantage skins further up the thread. Changing skins to me doesnt make everything better. It may for the user, not for everyone else. I don't think that Changing my Black Hand Sniper skin to a bright pink one is better. Its an unfair advantage as you can spot the person when you might normally miss them, and it just looks plain stupid.
Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337537 is a reply to message #337172] Thu, 26 June 2008 05:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ghostshaw is currently offline  Ghostshaw
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Its still the server owner who should decide.

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Re: will this disallow skins? [message #337611 is a reply to message #337537] Thu, 26 June 2008 15:57 Go to previous message
Starbuzzz
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You cannot take away what was already given! However, you can control it but not by too much.

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