Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Drugs ARE NOT bad
| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297952 is a reply to message #297944] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 16:26   |
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BlueThen
Messages: 2402
Registered: February 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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| xptek wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 16:43 |
Drugs aren't inherently good or bad. That's entirely up to the user.
However, the War on Drugs needs to end. We spend an (estimated) $75 billion dollars a year on fighting drugs, as well as paying to incarcerate those in prison because of drug offenses (approximately 50% of the inmate population).
You'd expect the availability and use of illegal drugs to decline after spending that much public money, but that's not the case. Teen drug use is nearly double what it was 15 years ago.
It should be obvious at this point that prohibition doesn't help stop drug use at all, and only increases our already large inmate population. The only people that benefit from prohibition are drug traffickers and politicians.
Just giving you guys something to think about.
(bitching and name-calling from Starbuzz in 5...4...3...2...)
editx3: This link explains what I'm talking about more clearly: Free from the Nightmare of Prohibition
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So you are saying that durgs should be legal and people should stop trying to banish them?
Drugs, with the exception of medication, as far as I know, can alter the mental capacity, in a bad way and destroy the knowledge of what's wrong or what's right. People would be murdering from using drugs, and murdering for drugs.
If all drugs, were to become legal and found in common stores like Walmart, then America, Britain, and the rest of the world would be very fucked up, and we'd probably have way more people in jail than now.
By the way, to tell you the truth, I didn't research this. I didn't learn this in school (not entirely), this is common sense, which most drug users (with the exception of medication users) lack.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297953 is a reply to message #297772] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 16:46 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
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General (2 Stars) |
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Alcohol is a drug which can alter ones mind. Tobacco alters a person's mind as well.
Although I don't toke, I do support the legalization of Marijuana, simply because we can tax the f*ck out of it, make billions, and rip off idiot teen-agers who are lazy, and listen to Blink 182.
If commercialized, Pot will no longer be a fun drug. Pot was, and still is about the 'anti-establishment' . What better way to get people from not doing it than making it part of the Capitalist establishment. Give the rights to grow the stuff to Marlboro, Players, et al, to grow the stuff. Have them use their market-power to eliminate the small suppliers, and make it illegal to grow your own. 
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297956 is a reply to message #297953] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 16:54 |
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BlueThen
Messages: 2402
Registered: February 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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For the people who are planning to use the argument "But this illegal drug is not as bad as this other drug, which is legal!!1", like in the previous drug debates, I'm gonna have to have a say in this...
Comparison is not a logical excuse. Even if a illegal drug is not as bad as a legal drug, it still shouldn't be legal. I don't care if it's not as bad, it's still bad. It still kills. It still corrupts society.
I know that some drugs are legal, and others aren't, but think, will legalizing the other drugs cause ALL the drugs aren't illegal will help anything? Let's try and stick with what we got, and do the best in all ways to illegalize all drugs.
I really hate it when people think it's all or nothing. You can't start big, ya gotta make progress.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297957 is a reply to message #297952] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 17:06 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| BlueThen wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 18:26 |
| xptek wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 16:43 |
Drugs aren't inherently good or bad. That's entirely up to the user.
However, the War on Drugs needs to end. We spend an (estimated) $75 billion dollars a year on fighting drugs, as well as paying to incarcerate those in prison because of drug offenses (approximately 50% of the inmate population).
You'd expect the availability and use of illegal drugs to decline after spending that much public money, but that's not the case. Teen drug use is nearly double what it was 15 years ago.
It should be obvious at this point that prohibition doesn't help stop drug use at all, and only increases our already large inmate population. The only people that benefit from prohibition are drug traffickers and politicians.
Just giving you guys something to think about.
(bitching and name-calling from Starbuzz in 5...4...3...2...)
editx3: This link explains what I'm talking about more clearly: Free from the Nightmare of Prohibition
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So you are saying that durgs should be legal and people should stop trying to banish them?
Drugs, with the exception of medication, as far as I know, can alter the mental capacity, in a bad way and destroy the knowledge of what's wrong or what's right. People would be murdering from using drugs, and murdering for drugs.
If all drugs, were to become legal and found in common stores like Walmart, then America, Britain, and the rest of the world would be very fucked up, and we'd probably have way more people in jail than now.
By the way, to tell you the truth, I didn't research this. I didn't learn this in school (not entirely), this is common sense, which most drug users (with the exception of medication users) lack.
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Wait, so using "common sense" is more reliable of a source of understanding than scientific research is? You sir, are a stereotypical, mindless drone that lets propaganda dictate your thought process.
Look, most drugs are bad for you in excessive amounts. Most people are probably too stupid to know when to quit. However, it's not your life to live, and unless they do something that impedes on the rights of others while under the influence, there should be no drug-related crimes.
Edit: I agree with xptek, completely. Prohibition of drugs (and alcohol during the '20s) is largely unsuccessful. It does absolutely nothing to curtail drug trafficking, selling, and usage. As he said, drug usage among teens is up nearly double than it was just (less than) 2 short decades ago.
Also, watch the fucking link I posted. I didn't upload that movie for you nitwits to pass over it.
whoa.
[Updated on: Tue, 20 November 2007 17:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297961 is a reply to message #297952] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 17:22 |
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xptek
Messages: 1410
Registered: August 2004
Location: USSA
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General (1 Star) |
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| BlueThen wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 18:26 |
| xptek wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 16:43 |
Drugs aren't inherently good or bad. That's entirely up to the user.
However, the War on Drugs needs to end. We spend an (estimated) $75 billion dollars a year on fighting drugs, as well as paying to incarcerate those in prison because of drug offenses (approximately 50% of the inmate population).
You'd expect the availability and use of illegal drugs to decline after spending that much public money, but that's not the case. Teen drug use is nearly double what it was 15 years ago.
It should be obvious at this point that prohibition doesn't help stop drug use at all, and only increases our already large inmate population. The only people that benefit from prohibition are drug traffickers and politicians.
Just giving you guys something to think about.
(bitching and name-calling from Starbuzz in 5...4...3...2...)
editx3: This link explains what I'm talking about more clearly: Free from the Nightmare of Prohibition
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So you are saying that durgs should be legal and people should stop trying to banish them?
Drugs, with the exception of medication, as far as I know, can alter the mental capacity, in a bad way and destroy the knowledge of what's wrong or what's right. People would be murdering from using drugs, and murdering for drugs.
If all drugs, were to become legal and found in common stores like Walmart, then America, Britain, and the rest of the world would be very fucked up, and we'd probably have way more people in jail than now.
By the way, to tell you the truth, I didn't research this. I didn't learn this in school (not entirely), this is common sense, which most drug users (with the exception of medication users) lack.
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You're missing my point entirely.
The effects and damages of specific drugs are entirely irrelevant in this discussion.
My point is that prohibition of illicit drugs do nothing to stop the flow and use of illegal drugs in the country.
The prohibition of illegal drugs and housing non-violent prisoners convicted of drug crimes costs billions a year, with absolutely nothing to show for it.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but until the 1900s cocaine and heroin could be purchased over-the-counter (note: not suggesting this should happen again), but there was minimal crime associated with the two drugs. Because of the hyperinflation of cocaine/heroin prices caused by the War on Drugs, addicts turn to violent crime and robbery to fund their (extremely expensive) habits. The War on Drugs has also caused cocaine and heroin to be filled with potentially dangerous adulterants and cutting agents, which cause thousands of users to die each year (due to unsafe cutting agents and varying degrees of purity in black market goods). The War on Drugs has also restricted access to clean needles, resulting in elevated HIV rates in drug users and non-drug users.
Don't think I can make it any clearer than that. It really doesn't matter if you support drug use or not. It should be painfully obvious at this point that current system of prosecuting drug users and distributors does not work and only benefits those engaged in illegal smuggling or those trying to stop the illegal smuggling. The War on Drugs has caused a rise in violent crime, drug overdoses, drug use rates, and the number of people incarcerated/living off our tax money.
cause = time
[Updated on: Tue, 20 November 2007 17:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297964 is a reply to message #297772] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 17:45 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Ugh... try this again... (I think I caught the forum in a backup.
comments based off the titles of http://www.populistamerica.com/free_from_the_nightmare_of_prohibition
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The difficulty of enforcing victimless-crime laws leads to three bad consequences.
The Rise in Violent Crime
Black Markets
Police State Tactics
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LOL. I love this logic. If only it were that simple. Guess what? If people would not break the small crimes, the police wouldn't have to waste their time enforcing them! There would BE no rise in violent crime, no Black Markets and no police state tactics required if people would not break the law.
You have no one to blame but yourself, people! But then, "propaganda" tells me that people like this often try to blame someone else for their own acts... seems like it is true in this instant.
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HOW THE INNOCENT ARE HURT
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Oh, how I wish I could use this logic
in any of my philosophy classes. I would be sitting with a 4.0. Unfortunately, this logic does not work with anyone who has even a shred of intelligence.
Faults of the system that govern crime does not mean the crime should be legal. Heck, just look at how many people are arrested/jailed for murder they did not commit. I DARE you to say that murder should become legal because innocent people get caught in the system.
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Some Are More Equal Than Others
The Honorable Hypocrites
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Corrupt politicians = crime should be legalized huh? Again, such wonderful logic there. I don't have much to say on this because I can't understand the logic myself... it is so horrible that even I don't know where to begin.
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TWO TYPES OF CRIMES
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Ah yes, the "victimless" crime reasoning. I could agree with this, provided someone can guarantee me committing the "victimless" crime will not involve a victim later. As Crimson pointed out one time, someone she knew got high and killed a person. Sure, getting high may have been victimless, but what about after? Sure, gambling can be victimless, but what about when you become a burden on society because you are now poor? Sure, drinking is fine, but what about getting drunk and doing something to someone who did not consent?
"Victimless" crimes only count when the act and the CONSEQUENCES of the act do not involve another person.
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It may be difficult for a spouse to leave an alcoholic or a gambler, but it is the spouse's own free will that determines whether to stay or go. All parties are there voluntarily, however dismal the situation.
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Wrong. If a wife has been beaten to the point of being broken, she will not be there voluntarily. If a child is present, it will not be voluntary (a child legally lacks the capacity to agree to such things). A spouse does not take lightly the idea of leaving someone because of things they do. They may feel obliged to remain as they gave their vows they would. That does not imply consent. What if the spouse simply can't leave?
Be it injury or financially unable to leave?
Sorry, but this logic is also a failure.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297980 is a reply to message #297776] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 18:54 |
Sn1per74*
Messages: 939
Registered: April 2006
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Colonel |
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| prasp wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 22:14 |
Funny you say that, when the war on drugs specifically targets minorities such as blacks.
So therefore you're a traitor to your own race.
And stop trying to change the subject.
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You are a complete idiot.
Creator: AoBFrost
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #297995 is a reply to message #297952] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 20:14 |
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Canadacdn
Messages: 1830
Registered: September 2005
Location: Temple of Nod
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General (1 Star)
PLECOS MASTER |
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| BlueThen wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 17:26 |
Drugs, with the exception of medication, as far as I know, can alter the mental capacity, in a bad way and destroy the knowledge of what's wrong or what's right. People would be murdering from using drugs, and murdering for drugs.
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So wait a minute... You're saying that only prohibited drugs are bad, while medical painkillers proven to cause addictions and psychiatric drugs that alter the brain chemistry of thousands of kids put on them usually against their will are all 100% safe, legit, and unquestionable?
[Updated on: Tue, 20 November 2007 20:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298018 is a reply to message #297772] |
Tue, 20 November 2007 23:06 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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Sorry, but I don't see opium being used on a regular basis when Canada, USA, Britain, etc. were developing. Tobacco and Alcohol, however, were.
I said integrated into our society, NOT used in our history. Simple use does not mean it has been integrated into our society. Heck, cocaine was consumed in frequent amounts in our recent history... it doesn't mean its been integrated (ever wonder why it's call "Coca Cola"?).
Unless you count the consumption of poppy seeds... then I can't really argue with you.
[Updated on: Tue, 20 November 2007 23:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298034 is a reply to message #297772] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 02:46 |
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firazero
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2007
Location: UK
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Recruit |
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we dont use opium in medicin anymore because morphine was developed
its an opiat (has a similar structure to opuim) and is considered safer as the difference between an effective dose and a lethal dose is greater than opiums.
you cant really say that medical drugs are different to illegal drugs ("drugs of abuse") because marijuana extracts (canabinoids) can be used to treat Alzheimers disease, in the UK there was alot of political crap about making it less illigal (politicians arnt good at extreams).
and morphine is more addictive that opium, making it a worse drug of abuse if people have access to it.
most drugs of abuse have some medical applications but not in the forms they are commonly found, the caniboids i mentioned earlyer are made synthetically, its cheeper then purifying from canabis, but you cant argue that marijuana itself is good as im betting the stuff you can buy is not a purified active extract, and even they are experimental
"use the amnesia ray"
"you mean the revolver?"
"yes, be sure to wipe your own memory after"
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 02:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298060 is a reply to message #297772] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 10:13 |
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firazero
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2007
Location: UK
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Recruit |
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i agree, i was just saying that that drugs made from canibis have uses, and that drugs can be halpful or harmful depending on the situation.
on a funny note, recently a new heart medicine that exploded destroying the lab working on it has been droped by the drugs company...... and taken up by military scientists as a new high explosive
im serious, i just cant remember its name
"use the amnesia ray"
"you mean the revolver?"
"yes, be sure to wipe your own memory after"
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298061 is a reply to message #298018] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 10:28 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| warranto wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 01:06 |
Sorry, but I don't see opium being used on a regular basis when Canada, USA, Britain, etc. were developing. Tobacco and Alcohol, however, were.
I said integrated into our society, NOT used in our history. Simple use does not mean it has been integrated into our society. Heck, cocaine was consumed in frequent amounts in our recent history... it doesn't mean its been integrated (ever wonder why it's call "Coca Cola"?).
Unless you count the consumption of poppy seeds... then I can't really argue with you.
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I still feel it has quite the effect.
Regardless, The War on Drugs is failing, and it's a direct violation of my rights. I don't care if you love or hate drugs, nobody has the right to force one's will on another. I'm sure we'd all agree that it'd be silly for a government to mandate that we all drink a glass of wine every night or smoke a joint every day. I see it just as silly to say that we can't. My body, my life, and as long as I'm not impeding on your rights, I see no reason why I should be stopped.
whoa.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298086 is a reply to message #297772] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 12:59 |
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Jecht
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Registered: September 2004
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General (3 Stars) |
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If only things were so black and white.
If we were to legalize cocaine, wouldn't a crack-head mother be imposing cocaine on her unborn child? I mean, it is her body after all...It just so happens someone else lives there too...
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 13:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298106 is a reply to message #298061] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 13:49 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 10:28 |
| warranto wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 01:06 |
Sorry, but I don't see opium being used on a regular basis when Canada, USA, Britain, etc. were developing. Tobacco and Alcohol, however, were.
I said integrated into our society, NOT used in our history. Simple use does not mean it has been integrated into our society. Heck, cocaine was consumed in frequent amounts in our recent history... it doesn't mean its been integrated (ever wonder why it's call "Coca Cola"?).
Unless you count the consumption of poppy seeds... then I can't really argue with you.
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I still feel it has quite the effect.
Regardless, The War on Drugs is failing, and it's a direct violation of my rights. I don't care if you love or hate drugs, nobody has the right to force one's will on another. I'm sure we'd all agree that it'd be silly for a government to mandate that we all drink a glass of wine every night or smoke a joint every day. I see it just as silly to say that we can't. My body, my life, and as long as I'm not impeding on your rights, I see no reason why I should be stopped.
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I can't comment too much on the "war on drugs" and its success. However, if you can truly be alone when you do the, and the effect of taking them will have no unconsented impact on those around you or who could potentially be around you, then I can agree.
Unfortunatly, unless you live on a remote island or lock yourself in your room, you will have an impact on someone around you. If not from the item itself, then from the resulting condition of the act.
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