Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged)
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247297 is a reply to message #246959] |
Tue, 27 February 2007 18:34   |
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Oblivion165
Messages: 3468
Registered: June 2003
Location: Hendersonville, North Car...
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I wish EA would stop using the Sage engine and move onto something else, C&C3 looks and feels like a modded generals. I play a lot of generals mods and all this seems to be is a new toolbar and a replacement of models and teams.
Also I despise squads, Dawn of war and a lot of games are using the squad system now and I hate it. I would like to just send one man out to scout or to take a derrick, not this massive shift of units across the battle field.
The menu system is all the same, just look at the multiplayer screen.
That being said, I'm glad they are trying to bring back the gold.
EDIT: I went and reviewed some of these pages and my post didn't bring anything new to the discussion but at least I got to say it too.
WOL: Ob165ion Skype: Oblivion165 Yahoo Instant Messenger: CaptainJohn165
[Updated on: Tue, 27 February 2007 18:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247313 is a reply to message #246959] |
Tue, 27 February 2007 20:51 |
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Viking
Messages: 1692
Registered: July 2005
Location: Earth
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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C&C 3 totally blows... I dont know why I pre-ordered it. Maybe I will get it and sell it on E-Bay for $80.00 and make some profit hoping some people wanted it and dident manage to get a copy.
Wait I pre-ordered it for C&C95  .
Serously, no walls. Squads are gay. The build times seem to fast to me. It looks and feels like a generals mod. I don't like left clicking to select and right clicking to tell stuff to move and shit why could they not keep it the old way?
QUOTES
"The Renegade community revolves around having something awesome, and not sharing it so you can be on top of the mountain." -Canadacdn
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 05:22 |
| Memphis wrote on Tue, 15 May 2007 03:54 |
...fatally die to death...
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I don't know if you meant to do that, but triple redundancy for teh win. I LOL'ed.
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Awesome l337 people= Icedog90, Blazea58, Canadacdn, Crimson, jonwil
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247315 is a reply to message #246959] |
Tue, 27 February 2007 21:05 |
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Viking
Messages: 1692
Registered: July 2005
Location: Earth
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I WANT FUCKING WALLS AND GATES GOD DAMMIT SCREW EA!!!!
QUOTES
"The Renegade community revolves around having something awesome, and not sharing it so you can be on top of the mountain." -Canadacdn
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 05:22 |
| Memphis wrote on Tue, 15 May 2007 03:54 |
...fatally die to death...
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I don't know if you meant to do that, but triple redundancy for teh win. I LOL'ed.
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Awesome l337 people= Icedog90, Blazea58, Canadacdn, Crimson, jonwil
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247318 is a reply to message #247230] |
Tue, 27 February 2007 21:34 |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| MaidenTy1 wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 05:40 |
| Kanezor wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 02:47 |
That is my personal opinion. I can't believe I fell into yet another trap of EA's. Shame on me.
I played the C&C 3 demo for about 2 hours. I simply cannot believe the stench of Generals that it has. Sure it has some pretty graphics... but coming from EA, that is unsurprisingly just about the only nice thing about it. Oh yeah, and it has a real C&C plotline, but I don't think that's a good thing.
This game is not C&C. This game is Generals with Tiberium.
Way to fuck us over, EA. I just thought you guys were trying to make the community happy. I guess I thought wrong.
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I understand every individual word you just said, but string them together into sentences and it becomes totally incoherent.
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It's not my fault you're too retarded to understand simple sentences.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
Assuming you're not trying to be sarcastic or making fun of those few bashing the game...
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I was being highly sarcastic while trying to be focused at bashing EA and their work on Generals with Tiberium.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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Hi! We here at EA feel that C&C did not have enough Generals in it. In addition, we believe that we did not sufficiently fuck over the C&C name with the game Generals. So, we have decided to make a C&C Generals mod, and sell it for uber profit! We won't spend uber monies on designing a new engine because it's all right there. And we get the specialized feel of Starcraft with the awesomeness of our own C&C Generals look. And the best part? We get to cut costs because all the engine work has already been done!
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I hope you're actually quoting someone else, because I'm not sure what kind of idiot it takes to think that using a modern, perfectly capable engine and just upgrading it is in any-way-what-so-ever a bad thing. I'm sure you'd rather them waste hundreds of thousands of dollars to make an unnecessary new engine instead of just upgrading a current engine to accomplish the exact same thing and putting that money to better use.
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You could be right. It might not have been better for EA to create a new engine. But my point was that the feel of Generals' engine sucks.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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and even a mouse interface similar to Starcraft!
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You mean, "similar to every other modern RTS game", right? Besides, they'll most likely include the option to use the left click instead.
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Being that I don't play "every other modern RTS game", no. I mean Starcraft. I played and loved C&C because it was different. Generals with Tiberium changed that.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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If you want to build a lot of infantry, you can just build lots of barracks! How is this different from C&C? It's not! Well, unless you count the fact that you have to tell each barracks to build a unit individually.
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No you don't, you just switch tabs on the side bar to build each extra unit, you don't have to go to each barracks to build each unit.
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Okay, so I didn't mention that you could switch via tabs. So what? My point was that it's the Starcraft-style (oh, forgive me... "every other modern RTS game"-style) of production whereas each building has its own production line. So much for C&C being unique.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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Also, each individual barracks does not get production speed increases if you build more barracks. But don't worry, it's still the same old C&C you like.
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I don't see what the big deal is, instead of building two units at a faster rate, you're building two units at the same time at normal rates, you still get two units quicker by building two barracks. I don't see the huge-gotta-bitch-and-whine-about-it difference.
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The huge-gotta-bitch-and-whine-about-it difference is that it's not C&C. It's Starcraft-style (oh, wait... "every other modern RTS game"-style)... again, so much for C&C being unique.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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If you want more tough units, you can build a technology building. No, that doesn't grant you access to special tougher units.
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So, I just imagined the Mammoth Tank and Juggernaught and the other units becoming available only after I built the Command Post and Tech Center, right?
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I left that part out. I wasn't focusing on the Mammoth Tank and Juggernaught, I was focusing on the upgrades that you have to purchase separately. My mistake.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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What it does do is let you buy things called "upgrades". Don't worry, that's nothing like Starcraft though. You see, in Starcraft, you could buy several upgrades several times. So you see, it's still C&C!
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I see you're still confusing "like all other modern RTS games" with "like Starcraft"...
And, no you couldn't buy the upgrades in Starcraft several times, each time you bought an upgrade, a better new upgrade was made available.
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Only in your eyes am I confusing "like all other modern RTS games" with "like Starcraft". C&C doesn't need to be Starcraft-style to a modern RTS game. Otherwise, it is exactly what you're implying: it fits into "all other modern RTS games" that you can simply pick up off of the shelf, play for a few days or weeks, and then get bored of it because it has absolutely no uniqueness to it.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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We've also felt it necessary to remove the ability to build base walls and gates. It was entirely too unique, and we felt that it detracted from the necessity of building more structures and units. Who cares about walls, anyways? I know I sure don't.
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The modders that will add it back in within months of it's release, if walls are not added in a patch or something. CnC3 had walls, they just for some reason removed the ability to build them at the last minute. Wow, an actual valid complaint, must have been an accident, right?
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I'll ignore your cynical sarcasm at the end.
And who cares about the modders? I for one do not fucking care about mods. I want the real game to be the way it should have been rather than needing modifications to make it the way it should have been. Is that too much to ask? Seriously, think about it.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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We also felt that Generals was pioneering this awesome macro ability. Now instead of being able to tell each unit what to do individually, you can control whole squads of infantry with a single click!
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Because 6 people taking 6 direct hits to die is less stupid then 1 person taking 6 direct hits to die? It's only a visual change.
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What part of NOT unique do you understand? It's a visual change that was not needed.
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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While we're changing things, we decided that tiberium trees were entirely too unsightly. They do have a habit of growing tiberium, you know. So instead, we felt that tiberium should come out of large holes in the ground. It doesn't matter how these holes formed, what matters is that tiberium grows out of them.
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Damn, a second valid complaint, even though it is a very minor and insignificant one.
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Yeah, it was rather insignificant... but I figured while I was ranting, I might as well throw it in there. I did actually like the tiberium trees of old. 
| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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Oh yeah, and it has a real C&C plotline, but I don't think that's a good thing.
This game is not C&C. This game is Generals with Tiberium.
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You're ranting about it being bad because it has a few different features then C&C games, but it having a "real C&C plotline" is somehow bad?
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No, I'm ranting about it being bad because it has many different features than C&C games and thus doesn't deserve the real C&C plotline.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247319 is a reply to message #246959] |
Tue, 27 February 2007 21:42 |
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Ryu
Messages: 2833
Registered: September 2006
Location: Liverpool, England.
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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I like the feel to this game, No walls? Wtf EA, This now sucks, I can't make a awsome looking base.
I did expect to see walls, And maybe more new units like a watch tower, And bla bla <;Insirt more rant here;>
Apart from that, everything looks nice, and the new models for buildings and tanks etc look and feel awsome. Tho thats my opinion, I'm sure there are others that completely hated this game.
Right now I'm rendering a movie, I'm going to upload it to YouTube soon, So I'll edit this post or make a new post.
EDIT; Btw, Did anyone notice CnC3 Had Renegade death screams on the Infantry Soldiers?
Presence is a curious thing, if you think you need to prove it... you probably never had it in the first place.
[Updated on: Tue, 27 February 2007 21:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247333 is a reply to message #246959] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 00:11 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Walls are a necessity; they have been ever since TD. Walls are what keep enemies from jacking things like MCVs and tech buildings with surprise engi rushes. Without walls, a lone early APC can make your life a living hell by stealing away half your base. Let's not even consider how important walls are as a passive defense against damaging attacks, huh?
Walls have been especially important in the Tiberian branch of the universe- TS had no fewer than four wall-type defenses, all of which were valuable in their own way. Concrete walls and gates for basic defense, Laser fences and Firestorm walls for defense against heavy attacks- Firestorm walls being able to defeat even superweapon and airborne attacks- and finally pavement, to defend against subterranean units and cratering.
It's a mystery why Nod seems to have abandoned subterranean units, and terrain deformation died with TS, so the loss of pavement is acceptable. However, that leaves both passive and active walls for both sides that could have played a major role in defensive strategy. I'd be interested to see how EA justifies the complete omission of walls as a defensive tool.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247334 is a reply to message #247333] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 00:26 |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| NukeIt15 wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 01:11 |
I'd be interested to see how EA justifies the complete omission of walls as a defensive tool.
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Simple. EA thinks everyone should go out and rush in 10-minute games.
It's worth noting that 10-minute games are not fun at all.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247335 is a reply to message #246959] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 00:29 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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What I really, really hate is the freaking fog of war. I do NOT need to know in advance where all tib fields are but I DO want to keep revealed terrain revealed.
I hope they will still put the option to disable fog of war in the multiplayer.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247340 is a reply to message #246959] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 01:09 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Another nod in agreement from me. Fog of War was an option in TS, but it was left disabled by default and I don't know anyone who opted to enable it. It is something decidedly not C&C, regardless of whether or not it is what everybody else is doing. Hell, I remember playing three different RTS titles by 2001 (Homeworld, C&C, and Star/Warcraft) and actually having three different sensor systems to play around with- and each one worked well with its own unique gameplay style.
Fog of War doesn't go well with C&C gameplay. It goes very well with 'Craft-style base building and massing, requiring players to station units at key locations to keep tabs on bad guys. It does not go very well with C&C. When you roll back a section of shroud in C&C, it damn well ought to stay rolled back.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247343 is a reply to message #246959] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 01:27 |
icedog90
Messages: 3483
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I didn't play the demo much at all, but after reading everything you guys are discussing and recalling what I saw in the demo, I'm beginning to realize how this feels a lot like Generals. It doesn't feel completely like it, but it definitely has many elements. I think part of the reason is because it's still based on the SAGE engine. I don't know what EA was thinking when they decided to remove the walls, the proper shroud, the left clicking, THE RADIO, and other things. Even the cut-scenes don't really do justice. I think all of the actors overact, including Kane, not because of themselves but because of how EA directed them. I played all of the C&C games since I was 8... I have a pretty good idea of how they feel. They just totally lack what the original ones had.
Not everything is bad, but there are more bad things than I expected.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247346 is a reply to message #247343] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 02:00 |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| icedog90 wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 02:27 |
I played all of the C&C games since I was 8... I have a pretty good idea of how they feel. They just totally lack what the original ones had.
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You and I are in the same boat. I've been playing C&C for more than half of my life, how sad is that?
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247352 is a reply to message #246959] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 02:37 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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TBH: C&C movie actors have always been overacting. It's part of the deal.
Don't get me wrong: I like how the game looks and feels but there's some Generals-elements in it that make my hair rise.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247361 is a reply to message #247281] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 03:35 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| NukeIt15 wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 16:30 |
- Structures die way too easily, especially base defenses. A handful of basic-level tanks and infantry can wipe the floor with three or four defense towers before said towers can make as many as two or three kills combined.
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In the original game, defence structures were simply too powerful. They were sensibly nerfed during alpha testing. A player being able to turtle effectively and win against an aggressive opponent does not make for a good RTS game. Perfect example: Mirkwood Archers in towers in Rise of the Witch-King (well, if Mirks were as cheap as the turrets in CnC3 are)
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #247376 is a reply to message #247318] |
Wed, 28 February 2007 06:41 |
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| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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We also felt that Generals was pioneering this awesome macro ability. Now instead of being able to tell each unit what to do individually, you can control whole squads of infantry with a single click!
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Because 6 people taking 6 direct hits to die is less stupid then 1 person taking 6 direct hits to die? It's only a visual change.
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What part of NOT unique do you understand? It's a visual change that was not needed.
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Apparently the same part that you don't understand. How many RTS games have squads instead of individual units? Maybe a dozen or so (only 2 that I know of, Rise of Nations and Company of Heroes)? Out of hundreds that use individual units. Which way is more unique then?
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| Sir Phoenixx wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 09:57 |
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Oh yeah, and it has a real C&C plotline, but I don't think that's a good thing.
This game is not C&C. This game is Generals with Tiberium.
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You're ranting about it being bad because it has a few different features then C&C games, but it having a "real C&C plotline" is somehow bad?
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No, I'm ranting about it being bad because it has many different features than C&C games and thus doesn't deserve the real C&C plotline.
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You mentioned 4 actual differences, 1 of which (the mouse thing) will be only optional, and 1 will be fixed in a patch or at least a mod. I fail to see how 2, maybe 3 permanent differences would qualify as "many". There were more differences between TS and TD.
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[Updated on: Wed, 28 February 2007 06:44] Report message to a moderator |
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