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| Jesus [message #215250] |
Fri, 25 August 2006 23:58  |
Fish
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Everybody who walks the earth is destined to die at some point. It's a depressing thought, however it is nevertheless true. What happens then? Are we just obliterated or is there a life after this one? If there is eternal life, then the next life will be a lot longer than this one. If we win the genetic lottery here, we may live to be 100 years old. Most of us will live a shorter life than this. By comparison, the next life will last forever.
Bearing this in mind it is very important to consider how we live this life and to give some serious thought to the choices we make. Unless you subscribe to the notion that life is a random accident then you need to consider what you will say to your maker when you meet Him. The Bible says that we will all face judgement when we die. The Bible also says that all of us have done bad things in the eyes of God, we have all sinned. If we are to be held accountable for these things that we have done, then our eternal destination is going to be very unpleasant. We will not be able to tell God that we deserve to go into His heaven, because we don't deserve to go into His heaven.
God has made a way for us to avoid hell, which is where I deserve to go along with everyone else. He sent Jesus Christ to earth to live the perfect life that we couldn't live, pay for our sins with His suffering on the cross and to purchase a place in heaven for us. The way to receive the gift of eternal life is to do the following:
1. Trust Jesus to save you from your sins.
2. Accept Him as your Savior.
3. Make Him the Lord of your life (Giving Him control of your life).
4. Confess your sins to God (He knows them all anyway) and ask Him to forgive you of them.
These are not steps to be taken lightly. If you follow Jesus, it can't help but change your life. It will also make the next life a lot more enjoyable.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215264 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 01:22  |
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Dover
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Location: Monterey, California
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| Fish wrote on Fri, 25 August 2006 23:58 |
Everybody who walks the earth is destined to die at some point. It's a depressing thought, however it is nevertheless true. What happens then? Are we just obliterated or is there a life after this one? If there is eternal life, then the next life will be a lot longer than this one. If we win the genetic lottery here, we may live to be 100 years old. Most of us will live a shorter life than this. By comparison, the next life will last forever.
Bearing this in mind it is very important to consider how we live this life and to give some serious thought to the choices we make. Unless you subscribe to the notion that life is a random accident then you need to consider what you will say to your maker when you meet Him. The Bible says that we will all face judgement when we die. The Bible also says that all of us have done bad things in the eyes of God, we have all sinned. If we are to be held accountable for these things that we have done, then our eternal destination is going to be very unpleasant. We will not be able to tell God that we deserve to go into His heaven, because we don't deserve to go into His heaven.
God has made a way for us to avoid hell, which is where I deserve to go along with everyone else. He sent Jesus Christ to earth to live the perfect life that we couldn't live, pay for our sins with His suffering on the cross and to purchase a place in heaven for us. The way to receive the gift of eternal life is to do the following:
1. Trust Jesus to save you from your sins.
2. Accept Him as your Savior.
3. Make Him the Lord of your life (Giving Him control of your life).
4. Confess your sins to God (He knows them all anyway) and ask Him to forgive you of them.
These are not steps to be taken lightly. If you follow Jesus, it can't help but change your life. It will also make the next life a lot more enjoyable.
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I don't believe it.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215279 is a reply to message #215264] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 03:35 |
puddle_splasher
Messages: 595
Registered: May 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
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Bear in mind that the gospels from the Bible were printed over 300 years after Jesus died.
Now what you have is a story told by word of mouth, just like "chinese whispers" where the story becomes longer, twisted and more corrupt.
The gospels were originally supposed to tell you about his life and were NOT meant to rules our lifes.
Think long and hard! We are still believing in things 2000 years later printed by people that thought Thunder was the gods talking.
Is there life after death? lets just say that no-one has ever came back to tell me. It is all about faith.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215311 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 07:52 |
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cheesesoda
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Location: Jackson, Michigan
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| Fish wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 02:58 |
Everybody who walks the earth is destined to die at some point. It's a depressing thought, however it is nevertheless true. What happens then? Are we just obliterated or is there a life after this one? If there is eternal life, then the next life will be a lot longer than this one. If we win the genetic lottery here, we may live to be 100 years old. Most of us will live a shorter life than this. By comparison, the next life will last forever.
Bearing this in mind it is very important to consider how we live this life and to give some serious thought to the choices we make. Unless you subscribe to the notion that life is a random accident then you need to consider what you will say to your maker when you meet Him. The Bible says that we will all face judgement when we die. The Bible also says that all of us have done bad things in the eyes of God, we have all sinned. If we are to be held accountable for these things that we have done, then our eternal destination is going to be very unpleasant. We will not be able to tell God that we deserve to go into His heaven, because we don't deserve to go into His heaven.
God has made a way for us to avoid hell, which is where I deserve to go along with everyone else. He sent Jesus Christ to earth to live the perfect life that we couldn't live, pay for our sins with His suffering on the cross and to purchase a place in heaven for us. The way to receive the gift of eternal life is to do the following:
1. Trust Jesus to save you from your sins.
2. Accept Him as your Savior.
3. Make Him the Lord of your life (Giving Him control of your life).
4. Confess your sins to God (He knows them all anyway) and ask Him to forgive you of them.
These are not steps to be taken lightly. If you follow Jesus, it can't help but change your life. It will also make the next life a lot more enjoyable.
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Evangellicals suck.
whoa.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215324 is a reply to message #215311] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 09:28 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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If there is a god, he would not be the Christian god. Christianity is a religion created by man. Its book, rules, history, and ideals were made by men, not a god.
Life was a random mess up, that is untill I see otherwise.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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| Re: Jesus [message #215341 is a reply to message #215251] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 11:59 |
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Hydra
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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| z310 wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 03:06 |
I subscribe to the notion that life is a random accident. 
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How depressing.
| puddle_splasher |
Bear in mind that the gospels from the Bible were printed over 300 years after Jesus died.
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Bear in mind that the blurb in your science textbook about Sir Isaac Newton's three main laws of physics were written over 400 years after he actually tested them. That's more than 300 years, so according to your logic, we can't believe what is written in our science textbooks today.
Hell, according to that logic, we can't believe a single written record, whether scientific, religious, historical, or anything else, older than 100 years.
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Think long and hard! We are still believing in things 2000 years later printed by people that thought Thunder was the gods talking.
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You're right. Let's completely renounce all of our beliefs in all religions AND science and not attempt to learn anything about our environment, nor should we base any of our current knowledge on past experiences and written accounts.
| j_ball430 |
Evangellicals suck.
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NOU
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If there is a god, he would not be the Christian god.
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And you know this to be absolutely true, don't you, despite your complete lack of evidence?
Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215343 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 12:23 |
puddle_splasher
Messages: 595
Registered: May 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
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Don't we just love Religious Zealots.
You are just the same as the Muslim race. Only problem there, is that they came after Christianity.
Have you ever known scientifically, of anyone, animal or any living thing to be resurrected and not after being "dead" for a few seconds or minutes?
What you have is Faith and there is nothing wrong with that.
However science can and frequently rips the Old Testament apart with stone cold, hard facts.
Google "The Dead Scrolls" and learn something different. Do not let yourself become brainwashed. Always ask questions, for there are a lot more questions for every answer that you will be given.
Again we still believe in stories written by people who thought that Thunder was God speaking. Even in todays world of science when we have disproved that theory, do people still believe in ancient writings of what was a good mans story of his life and teachings, that was sadly corrupted by a few interpreters 300 years later.
What happened to the gospel of Mary Magdalene or the gospel of Josuah of Nazareth? there are approximately another 50+ gospels that have been revealed. Try reading some of them.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215353 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 12:54 |
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Blazer
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Wow I can't believe someone started this topic. Don't people learn to avoid religious discussions? There is nothing that anyone can say, from any religion or point of view, that will sway the other person(s). Religion, or lack thereof is deeply ingrained in people, they are either taught it from childbirth or they have come to their own decision at some point, and in my experience everyone almost violently defends whichever their point of view is.
This does not only apply to religious versus non-religious people...I have seen practical knock-down-dragout fights between which god is the "true" god (one person may believe Jesus is the son of God, while another belives in Buddah...one follows the bible and another follows the Koran, etc)
There's no winning the "argument", and no amount of pasting what you believe or referencing scientific materials is going to sway the other person one bit, so all that happens is everyone flames each other to death and gets pissed off. There are exceptions to the rule of course, and I have seen calm intelligent discussion on opposing sides...but one thing that I have never seen is someones mind changed due to the discussion.
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| Conversation with an Atheist [message #215358 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 13:07 |
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Hydra
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(Revised and updated from its last posting; if you notice any inconsistencies and blatant fallacies, let me know.)
"Atheist in quotes."
*Theist in asteriks.*
"God doesn't exist; God is just some fairytale people made up to give purpose to their meaningless lives. It's easy for people to attribute to 'God' that which they cannot explain. I absolutely KNOW there is no God and believe strictly in science and logic."
*Sure God exists. How else did we get here, completely unorganized randomness? You call THAT science?*
"Well, it all started with the Big Bang…."
*What initiated the Big Bang? What even originated the matter that supposedly exploded in the Big Bang?*
"It was the result of a long chain of nuclear and chemical reactions among all the concentrated matter."
*Still doesn't answer my question as to what originated that matter or what caused those chemical reactions in the first place.*
"Why does it have to be created? Like your God, why couldn't it just always have existed without any initial creation?"
*Because everything finite, unlike an omnipotent deity, must have a beginning and something that caused it into being. Something outside the realm of our universe must have created it because it couldn't just create itself.*
"Sure it could. In fact, when you think about it, matter is hardly finite at all, anyway, since it only changes from one form to another. It has simply always existed."
*Yet matter does not have omnipotent powers and cannot create more of itself, nor could it have created itself in the first place, so what created it?*
"Haven't we gone over this about five times already? Nothing created it; if anything, it created itself."
*So you believe in spontaneous generation of matter out of nothing... (a "theory" science has failed to substantiate with any reputable evidence/experimentation). Why doesn't this seem to happen anymore within our observable realm of space?*
"Well, the universe has changed much since the time of the Big Bang. The conditions that caused the Big Bang to occur in the first place aren't present anymore."
*Conditions such as...?*
"Proper temperature, pressure, close proximity of all matter to itself… stuff like that."
*Uh-huh... and what caused all those things to be set just right in order for everything to explode?
(Never mind that you still haven't answered my question as to where it all came from.)*
"Random collisions and reactions of millions of atoms with each other. All matter was contained in a single point, so billions of reactions could be occurring at the same point in time. The Big Bang occurred when the outward forces caused by the billions of nuclear and chemical reactions became too great for the forces holding the matter together to overcome. KA-BOOM! It swelled up and exploded."
*So how did just the right reactions occur at just the right moments to leave us with our current roster of elements, polyatomic ions, etc. and their various properties 'n' such?*
"Randomness occurring over an infinite timescale. Given enough time, all possibilities that can happen, will happen. Matter had all the time in the universe to get everything right."
*So, you're saying that you believe in an infinite chain of finite, causal events that have no beginning or any outside cause to exist?
Also, if time is infinite, how did we ever get to now?*
"Which do you want me to answer first?"
*Take your pick.*
"Time is infinite because it never stops ticking. It has always been ticking and always will be ticking. I assume you're going to ask what initiated time to start its ticking, so let me just ask why it couldn't have always been around just like you claim your God has?"
*Because we could never have gotten to this current point in time if we were spending an eternity trying to catch up with ourselves. With no starting point and ending point on an infinitely long line of duration, how could we possibly progress from one spot to the next when we are moving forever into the past?*
"Whoa, wait a minute; time flows in one direction. We don't go from present to past; we go into the future at an infinitely fast rate since time does not stop. In fact, you could argue that the past doesn't even exist and that we are just forever transitioning from the present to the future."
*Okay… your point?*
“Well, we're here in one point in time that instantly progresses to the next…."
*Still doesn't explain how we got there in the first place if the starting point is an infinite distance away from where we are now.*
"…"
*Right…. Let’s move on, to a different point, shall we?*
“Okay, let’s.”
*You mentioned earlier that “given enough time, all possibilities that can happen, will happen.” Does this include the possibility of total system failure?*
“What do you mean by ‘system failure?’”
*Meaning that given the right conditions, the entire universe would “undo” itself.*
“The universe has ‘undone’ itself already many times over. At some point in time, possibly billions of years from now, all the matter that was flung to the far reaches of space by the Big Bang will come back together at a single point, just like it was from before the Big Bang.”
*That’s not what I meant.*
“Well, what did you mean, then?”
*By total system failure, I meant that the laws governing that entire process, from Big Bang to Big Crunch, will cease to properly function, halting the process altogether and destroying all matter in the universe. This is certainly a possibility, and according to you, all possibilities have already occurred, meaning we shouldn’t be here having this discussion since the universe should have been zapped out of existence an infinity ago.*
“…Obviously, since we’re still here, this hasn’t happened, meaning…”
*…Meaning not all possibilities have happened or are happening at the same time (like string theory tells us) since one of those possibilities is the possibility of total system failure that would negate existence… meaning we aren’t on an infinite timescale (since we haven’t been blinked out of existence yet)… meaning our universe had a definite starting point when something outside the boundaries of our physical laws caused it into being.*
“*sigh* There’s nothing I can do with you, is there? You’re just too blindly devoted to this idea of a higher being just so you can feel morally superior to me. Congratulations, you religious zealot.”
*How am I being a religious zealot if all I did was logically defend the idea of a higher power outside the realm of this universe that caused it into being? If anything, that’s only the agnostic point of view and doesn’t even bring other religions into play. I haven’t even BEGUN to delve into the logic behind my belief in the Christian god Jehovah….*
“That’s because GOD DOES NOT EXIST.”
*Funny how you keep saying that, yet you aren’t able to defend it, it seems.*
“I don’t NEED to defend it because IT’S TRUE!”
* *scoff* Who’s the religious zealot now?*
Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
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[Updated on: Sat, 26 August 2006 13:09] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jesus [message #215360 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 13:33 |
puddle_splasher
Messages: 595
Registered: May 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
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You are brainwashed and unable to think for yourself 
P.S. delve into the true meaning behind "The Rampant Lion" on your crest. Prepare to be shocked, its about your religion.
Start thinking Templar Knights and Christianity and before anyone says, "Oh, thats that D'Vinci code", no, its not mentioned in there. 
No! Its not about being a Scotsman. Thats a red lion on a yellow background.
[Updated on: Sat, 26 August 2006 13:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Conversation with an Atheist [message #215372 is a reply to message #215358] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 14:25 |
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Scythar
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Location: Finland
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| Hydra wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 16:07 |
(Revised and updated from its last posting; if you notice any inconsistencies and blatant fallacies, let me know.)
...
In fact, when you think about it, matter is hardly finite at all, anyway, since it only changes from one form to another. It has simply always existed."
*Yet matter does not have omnipotent powers and cannot create more of itself, nor could it have created itself in the first place, so what created it?*
"Haven't we gone over this about five times already? Nothing created it; if anything, it created itself."
*So you believe in spontaneous generation of matter out of nothing... (a "theory" science has failed to substantiate with any reputable evidence/experimentation). Why doesn't this seem to happen anymore within our observable realm of space?*
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So, first the atheist says that matter has always existed, and then for some reason he says "if anything, it created itself" which is a completely different case, and the rest of the conversation is based on that statement... This is an interesting text but seems too made-up for me.
Matter could be infinite, i.e. it has always existed, and no, I don't understand why it should thus be omnipotent as well.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
[Updated on: Sat, 26 August 2006 14:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jesus [message #215386 is a reply to message #215360] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 16:01 |
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warranto
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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| puddle_splasher wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 14:33 |
You are brainwashed and unable to think for yourself
P.S. delve into the true meaning behind "The Rampant Lion" on your crest. Prepare to be shocked, its about your religion.
Start thinking Templar Knights and Christianity and before anyone says, "Oh, thats that D'Vinci code", no, its not mentioned in there.
No! Its not about being a Scotsman. Thats a red lion on a yellow background.
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"One religion may have gotten it wrong! Therefore God must not exist!"
Ugh... please. Will people stop arguing the falacies of relgion in their quest to prove that God does not exist. Religion and God have nothing in common other than the idea of worshiping a divine being.
The ideas of religion are human-made. There have been 1000's of different religions throughout history. Yet NONE of those being wrong either proves or disproves the existance of God.
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Have you ever known scientifically, of anyone, animal or any living thing to be resurrected and not after being "dead" for a few seconds or minutes?
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I do. His name was Jesus. I know this because a book, filled with words that I am not able to witness for myself, tells me so.
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However science can and frequently rips the Old Testament apart with stone cold, hard facts.
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I'd like to see some of these facts (Honestly).
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| Re: Jesus [message #215411 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 19:47 |
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Crimson
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For religion to claim that a "god" or "intelligent being" created the universe is just closed-minded. And even IF there was a "god" who put the big bang into motion, it does NOT mean we need to worship it/her/him and it DOESN'T mean that anything in the Bible is more than a big bunch of brainwashing hooey. It also does NOT mean there's a heaven or a hell. I prefer to remain open minded about where we came from until and unless science finds a cause (quantum physics is awesome).
I'm the bawss.
[Updated on: Sun, 27 August 2006 00:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jesus [message #215418 is a reply to message #215411] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 21:00 |
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cheesesoda
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| Crimson wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 22:47 |
For religion to claim that a "god" or "intelligent being" created the universe is just closed-minded. And even IF there was a "god" who put the big bang into motion, it does NOT mean we need to worship it/her/him and it DOES mean that anything in the Bible is more than a big bunch of brainwashing hooey. It also does NOT mean there's a heaven or a hell. I prefer to remain open minded about where we came from until and unless science finds a cause (quantum physics is awesome).
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How the fuck is that being closed-minded? I choose to believe in something and disagree with other things. So? If that's the case then EVERYBODY is closed minded to some extent. I'm not denying that there IS a possibility that there's no God or no Heaven and Hell. However, I choose to believe differently. Just as you choose to believe that there's nothing. Believing in nothing is still believing in something... a principle, an idea, a thought.
If we're going to play those semantics, then you're closed-minded in saying that I'm closed-minded. I think you're wrong, therefore, your opinion isn't absolute and thusly closed-minded.
Quit playing these games. You think you're right. I think I'm right. Neither of us can prove each other wrong, so leave it at that. God can neither be proven nor disproven, so to tell me I'm wrong (or closed-minded) gets you nowhere because you have no factual evidence supporting your claim as I don't have any factual evidence supporting my claim.
whoa.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215421 is a reply to message #215386] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 21:26 |
icedog90
Messages: 3483
Registered: April 2003
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| warranto wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 16:01 |
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Have you ever known scientifically, of anyone, animal or any living thing to be resurrected and not after being "dead" for a few seconds or minutes?
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I do. His name was Jesus. I know this because a book, filled with words that I am not able to witness for myself, tells me so.
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People to this day are still being raised from the dead. it IS a fact. There are stories all over the internet, and heck, even videos if you search hard enough.
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