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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211858 is a reply to message #211847] Sat, 05 August 2006 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kanezor is currently offline  Kanezor
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msgtpain wrote on Fri, 04 August 2006 19:17

That said, Kanezor, I completely disagree with your view on Israel's UN cooperation. To date, they have completely ignored or defied approximately 60 UN resolutions. Most having to do with treatment of Palestinians and unlawful expansion of communities.
I suppose that's possible. I don't claim to be an expert on world politics; it's just that from what I've seen, Israel has complied with the U.N. stuff that I know of, and that's not a lot... pretty much just the ones where the U.N. has told Israel to back off. In any case, I think it would be excellent if there were some references as to where Israel has and has not complied with U.N. resolutions/mandates/whatever.

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 04 August 2006 19:17

I also disagree with your argument about those left in South Lebanon as being either "for hezbolla" or "idiots". Was this also your opinion of the 700,000 people left stranded in the path of Katrina? I'm betting that those Katrina welfare victims make more in a month than a lot of Lebanese make in a year. Do all of them even own a vehicle? You're leaving a lot of assumptions on the table as to why they are still there.

The difference between the Katrina evacuees and the Lebanon refugees is that Katrina happened over a course of about three days. I know this because I was part of it: I did not evacuate simply because the roads were blocked, and it turned out that Katrina went so much farther north of my area that it turned out I wasn't in any danger.
Lebanon refugees have had three (going on four) weeks to evacuate. Lebanon isn't a very large country; in three weeks, I could have walked the 20 miles or so. The only real problem with this is that Syria has closed its borders. I highly doubt Israel would like refugees entering Israel's borders; terrorists have proven time and time again that they love to hide within civilians. So, it would be pretty hard to evacuate to a different country... one that hasn't been embattled (yet).


FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27

Anyways back in the late 1970s a civil war broke out in Lebanon between the christians and muslims. Israel was pretty much to blame for the civil war though as they gave the sparks to get it going.
What did Israel do to spark the civil war in Lebanon?

FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27

Israel supposedly invaded to get rid of the PLO who fled to Lebanon.

Anyways during these years Lebanon didn't really have an army so Israel invaded with ease all the way up to beirut. During this time the Israeli commited lots of war crimes: Killing families, raping women, destroying homes etc...
Sadly war crimes are often committed by troops that are outside their home. I figure that usually, any real atrocities will have been reported to the right figures though.

FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27

Now, Hezbollah is a result of Israeli occupation and war crimes. Well anyways before Israel left Lebanon they took many thousand civilian prisoners with them and have them locked up in Israel and doing god knows what with them.
Has Hezbollah, or even Lebanon for that matter, pressed for a U.N. investigation into the treatment of the prisoners that Israel has? I'll leave it up to Israel to decide who to take prisoner and who not to, but if you're claiming that Israel is doing "god knows what with them", then surely an investigation into such would reveal it?

FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27

Anyways after the war Hezbollah went political. They built hospitals schools etc... but basically they helped rebuild Lebanon but i have to say nobody built as much as hariri did.

Anyways after Israel left Lebanon they still occupied the sheba farm area. There was really no ceasefire tbh, Israeli drones and jetfighters would violate our airspace daily and Hezbollah was constantly trying to negotiate the release of the prisoners for 6 years. I do believe there was a little prisoner swap in 2004 but i can't really remember.

Other then Israeli soldiers crossing the border and getting into scuffles with hezbollah everything was good.

Anyways i like to press strongly at the fact that hezbollah is a result of israeli war crimes. Almost ALL od\f it's fighters had their families killed by israeli forces, mohers and sisters raped etc...

Anyways Hezbollah is pretty much less than a 1000 fighters with only a few thousands reserves. It is a maricle they are keeping 10000 israeli soldiers from invading.

The civilian shield thing imo is a load of bull since i talked to family in Lebanon. They even bombed my uncle's gas station lol...

Anyways the civilians do not flee because the Lebanese people put dignity first. Our people are not cowards and do not fear the israeli army, tbh at this point the civilians probably are waiting for a major ground invasion to move up so they can get in the fighting. Believe it or not almost every single civilian house keeps weapons such as rpgs, ak47s etc... incase of a israeli invasion. Most of these weapons are soviet erra though but the civilians have access to it.
Cowards or not, if the civilians stay and fight, then they are no longer civilians. I think that's a point that a lot of people aren't grasping, and I think that's where the civilian shield idea came from: civilians staying, fighting, and then dying.

FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 10:21

i'll be assuming you know israel is using chemical weapons, cluster munitions on civilian populations.
Israel using chemical weapons would surprise me. Cluster weapons would also surprise me, but not as much. In any case, the only weapons I've seen the media show Israel using are definitely not cluster weapons.

FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 10:21

Nasrallah said: "The only way to stop rocket attacks was to stop the air raids and attacks on the civilians of Lebanon".

He has welcomed the IDF to settle any dispute man to man on the southern Lebanon border leaving civlians out of it.

I do feel sorry for the 500000 jews living in bomb shelters (if that number hasn't gone up) and all the jews who have fled. It is sad how a whole state of israel must suffer from the zionest regime. If israel wanted to wipe out hezbollah (which it has tried and failed miserably in the past and now) they would listen to nasrallah's demands and settle it on the southern border this way civilians in both sides wouldn't suffer.

Tel aviv is threatened to be hit if central beirut is hit (which it hasn't yet, the suburbs aren't considered beirut). If the zionist government decides to hit it then they just endangered a whole lot more civilians.

The point im trying to make here is suffering isn't necessary on both sides. Israel knows the rocket attacks stop when they stop bombing lebanese cities, towns, and civilians.

I definitely agree with you that a ground assault from Israel would be the better solution. Air superiority alone can not win a war; I believe this has been proven in just about all wars since World War 1.

FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 18:05

In the 1st few days of the war Israel bragged that they would finish hezbollah in less than a week. They bragged that they got 50% of the rockets. They bragged that the rocket threat would be over soon. They set their hopes high that they would advance to the latani river. They killed nasrallah a few times a day.
While I haven't noticed that Israel claims to have killed nasrallah, I have noticed that they did say that the fighting wouldn't last long and that they had destroyed most of the rockets. While I don't see an end to the fighting for at least another week or two (which, don't get me wrong... that *is* a tragedy); how are we supposed to know that Israel didn't in fact get most of the rockets... at least, at that time. For all that the rest of the world knows, Syria and Iran have been replenishing Hezbollah's supplies (and thus, the reason Israel has been destroying the civilian infrastructure).

FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 18:05

Today we are in the 24th day of this conflict. Israel hasn't fullfilled any of it's objectives, hasn't been able to advance even a little bit into Lebanon despite having 10000 troops fighting with air support etc... Did you know that Hezbollah was only around 1000 fighters with only about 2000 or so in reserve? How is israel going to get to the latani river?

I know 100% the war will end in Lebanon's and Hezbollah's terms as Lebanon just rejected the latest UN resolution as it was a joke to Lebanon's dignity. Israel had 18 years to defeat a Hezbollah who had no military capabilty and they were defeated miserably. The 2000 withdrawl was an embarrassing defeat for Israel.

How many military bases and rocket launchers does a militia of a few thousand men have? Seriously... It seems that the "Khezbollah" have more military bases and rocket sites that it was more soldiers.

Some of you will remain in denial right now. When 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 10 years go by of another bloody war and Israel hasn't fullfilled it's military objectives then you may finally realise that Israel is waging war on a whole nation.

The "meat shield" excuse is an insult to our people. We have lived through years and years of war and we do not fear any aggressors. If Hezbollah dared to use our civilians as meat shields you will be rest assured that the civilian population would hang their heads on a post. Our civilians are armed with soviet era weapons and i assure you if Hezbollah used us as shields they wouldn't last a day.

but w/e i've said all that needs to be said if people want to remain pro Israeli go right ahead. Just remember that Israel can hit so many "rocket launchers and "Khezbollah" bases" before you start to realise they are just spewing bs. The same bs they were spewing day 1 of this war.

What is "Khezbollah"?

Edit:
Aircraftkiller, I distincly recall you and I having a short discussion about my noticing that you always seem to insult people and that you think I'm stupid. Try looking at yours and my posts in this thread and think again.

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[Updated on: Sat, 05 August 2006 16:23]

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