Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah
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| Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211223] |
Thu, 03 August 2006 20:40  |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
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After a brief search on these forums, I've come to the conclusion that there's not a thread on this topic (there is one, but it was actually off-topic). So, I'd like to (re)ignite this topic. I find it relatively coincidental (let alone ironic) that people on this forums were discussing Israel, Lebanon, and Hezbollah (although it was off-topic) just weeks before this recent war started on July 12.
Please keep it civil with no derrogatory remarks: I'm sure there's fanatics on both sides (my own fanatacism being that of favoring Israel, which I hope you'll understand after reading the rest of this post), but that's not a reason to insult each other or their beliefs.
I would also love to have FMhalo join in on this, since he himself is apparently from Lebanon and could probably clear up some misconceptions regarding Lebanon and Hezbollah.
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What I don't understand is why the rest of the world can't see the fact that Hezbollah is using civilians as pawns in a political jihad. Sure, Hezbollah might have financed civilian schools, libraries, markets, whatever... but was it really Hezbollah that had financed that, or was it Iran through that terrorist organization (if you think Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, please do tell why)? While you think about that, remember that ultimately Hezbollah is using Lebanese public opinion to leverage acts of terrorism against Israel as "legitimate".
No matter what the news says, I'm also frankly surprised at the wording of what immediately sparked this conflict: | Quote: |
...the capture of two Israeli soldiers...
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Why haven't they labelled that as an abduction? It is much more appropriate! In fact a lot of news agencies had already gone from calling the "suicide bombers" a much more insultive name of "suicide murderers" and the like. So why not do the same for the spark of this now-three-weeks-long war?
The international community is retarded. Israel has, during the past years, been repeatedly told to back off and Israel repeatedly did so. Israel was not the aggressor in this war, and you can't expect an "immediate" ceasefire for tensions that have been building for years, literally. During the beginning of this war, Israel had dropped leaflets telling all civilians to flee for their lives. I believe that anyone left in the region is one of three things:- A Hezbollah fighter
- Forced to stay against their will by Hezbollah
- Or lastly: stupid, retarded, or similar.
If you're neither fighting the Israelis nor helping those that do, then there's really no reason to be there until the fighting is over. If you are fighting the Israelis (or more to the point) or supporting those that do, then you could get killed, and it will only not be your fault if Hezbollah has forced you to stay there or kill you themselves. I don't understand why international communities cannot seem to see this. And to touch on what I said at the beginning of this paragraph ("the international community is retarded"): if the same thing had happened to any of the nations that are unsupportive (to say the least) of Israel, I would wholeheartedly support them to take the exact same action that Israel is taking against Hezbollah, and I would in fact be confused if they didn't. As a matter of fact, I had been halfheartedly watching the Israeli news during the past six months or so, and had been perplexed as to why Israel hadn't taken any action.
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| FMhalo wrote on Sun, 30 April 2006 20:27 |
Isreal is still occupying the "Shebaa Farms border area". They did not completely withdraw and if it wasnt for Hezbollah Lebanon would be part of Isreal.
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Please, do tell me where Israel has started the fight (any fight). To the best of my knowledge, Israel has started none.
I don't know whether or not Israel would have annexed Lebanon if it was given the chance, but to the best of my knowledge, Israel has always been the defender. Sure, they've occupied Lebanese lands, but if you are attacked by someone, you have every right to call the police to have them go to their house. If there's no police, then what would you do when they hide in their home? With regards to that, when Hezbollah was created, it was to fight the Israeli occupation of Lebanon (which, I'll point out, was a response to a 1982 assasination attempt on an Israeli embassador and artillery attacks on Israelis). While (to the best of my knowledge) that occupation has never totally ended, neither has the Hezbollan (is that the correct spelling of Hezbollah as an adjective?) activities against Israel when Israel did back off as required by a U.N. mandate.
Obviously, if Israel was cooperating with the U.N. as far as pulling out of Lebanon before this recent conflict, then that would have been the proper way of getting Israel out of your Shebba Farms border (and thus, completely out of Lebanon)... not continuing to fight. And what's more is that if this was truly a fight about the Shebaa Farms, then Hezbollah should have chosen that place to conduct their raid against Israel, not within the internationally-recognized Israeli border.
Israel has repeatedly shown cooperation with the U.N., whereas Hezbollah has not. The U.N. had told Hezbollah to disarm, and yet Hezbollah still has not after a year.
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211228 is a reply to message #211223] |
Thu, 03 August 2006 22:29  |
PackHunter
Messages: 487
Registered: November 2004
Location: Holland
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The whole of the middle east is occupied with complete idiots that are in constant war with eachother. So who cares what half arsed reason it is because of this time. Lets put those old nuclear warheads to good use and just level the place or let them all kill eachother, whatever comes first. Really... why can't these people just get a live instead of just letting every incident grow out into full scale war? Sorry, if this seems a little harsh but they just can't seem to be able to stop themselves killing eachother. Israel, Libanon, Iran, Iraq, Palastina are all the same in my eyes.
[Updated on: Thu, 03 August 2006 23:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211249 is a reply to message #211223] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 02:02 |
MexPirate
Messages: 883
Registered: March 2006
Location: UK
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I think Israel is getting so much grief purely because of the figures, there are a lot more lebanese dying than Isralies from the missle attacks. But as pointed out they didn't fire first although there is a long standing history of conflict in the area, it seems to me like East meets West all in one area (Isreal representing the West-surrounded by countries with different views)
Repression and Violence are just part of life in that part of the world, I just cannot understand what motivates these people on a personal level other than the obvious, he hurt me so I will hurt him mentality that has been cycling for a long long time - I don't see anything being resolved any time soon - the Lebanese will now resent Isreal more because of the huge casualties, displacement of population and civilian targets hit. Israel's citizens will in turn show their opinions following missles landing in their country. Violence breeds violence and the causes soon seem to become irrelevant (look at Northern Ireland) - what is really needed is for people to stay in their own countries, be happy with what they have and quit pissing off neighbouring countries and bringing their own alliances to the table before we see Iraq Part 2 against Syria and Iran.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211305 is a reply to message #211277] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 08:47 |
MexPirate
Messages: 883
Registered: March 2006
Location: UK
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Wow, well that would be good - it doesn't work like that in the real world though.
Terrorists dont label themselves as such or no doubt Bush would have sent his boys out to do just that a long time ago and tbh, who is a terrorist? it's a matter of opinion.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211437 is a reply to message #211305] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 17:17 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
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Is Israel justified in their current assault on Lebanon? who knows, I definitely don't condemn them for defending themselves, and hezbolla definitely needs to get the hell out of the border area and allow the Lebanese government control of defending their borders. But the extent of Israel's current carnage seems a little excessive.
That said, Kanezor, I completely disagree with your view on Israel's UN cooperation. To date, they have completely ignored or defied approximately 60 UN resolutions. Most having to do with treatment of Palestinians and unlawful expansion of communities.
I also disagree with your argument about those left in South Lebanon as being either "for hezbolla" or "idiots". Was this also your opinion of the 700,000 people left stranded in the path of Katrina? I'm betting that those Katrina welfare victims make more in a month than a lot of Lebanese make in a year. Do all of them even own a vehicle? You're leaving a lot of assumptions on the table as to why they are still there.
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211778 is a reply to message #211223] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 07:27 |
FMhalo
Messages: 65
Registered: January 2005
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I guess i can clear up some common misconceptions about this.
Anyways back in the late 1970s a civil war broke out in Lebanon between the christians and muslims. Israel was pretty much to blame for the civil war though as they gave the sparks to get it going.
Israel supposedly invaded to get rid of the PLO who fled to Lebanon.
Anyways during these years Lebanon didn't really have an army so Israel invaded with ease all the way up to beirut. During this time the Israeli commited lots of war crimes: Killing families, raping women, destroying homes etc...
Fierce fighting would break out between civilians and Israeli soldiers occasionally.
Anyways as a result of this occupation Hezbollah was formed in i think 1982. Anyways Hezbollah eventually pushed Israel out of Lebanon in 2000.
Now, Hezbollah is a result of Israeli occupation and war crimes. Well anyways before Israel left Lebanon they took many thousand civilian prisoners with them and have them locked up in Israel and doing god knows what with them.
Anyways after the war Hezbollah went political. They built hospitals schools etc... but basically they helped rebuild Lebanon but i have to say nobody built as much as hariri did.
Anyways after Israel left Lebanon they still occupied the sheba farm area. There was really no ceasefire tbh, Israeli drones and jetfighters would violate our airspace daily and Hezbollah was constantly trying to negotiate the release of the prisoners for 6 years. I do believe there was a little prisoner swap in 2004 but i can't really remember.
Other then Israeli soldiers crossing the border and getting into scuffles with hezbollah everything was good.
Anyways i like to press strongly at the fact that hezbollah is a result of israeli war crimes. Almost ALL od\f it's fighters had their families killed by israeli forces, mohers and sisters raped etc...
Anyways Hezbollah is pretty much less than a 1000 fighters with only a few thousands reserves. It is a maricle they are keeping 10000 israeli soldiers from invading.
The civilian shield thing imo is a load of bull since i talked to family in Lebanon. They even bombed my uncle's gas station lol...
Anyways the civilians do not flee because the Lebanese people put dignity first. Our people are not cowards and do not fear the israeli army, tbh at this point the civilians probably are waiting for a major ground invasion to move up so they can get in the fighting. Believe it or not almost every single civilian house keeps weapons such as rpgs, ak47s etc... incase of a israeli invasion. Most of these weapons are soviet erra though but the civilians have access to it.
Anyways if anybody else wants to ask anything else don't hesitate to ask. Flaming will be ignored of course as it isn't productive.
edit: If anybody wonders where the civilians would get these kind of weapons it is all smuggled from Syria. From what i was told by uncles and stuff they used to smuggle this stuff through an underground tunnel that went from Syria to Lebanon. Civilians would also pick up weapons off the streets as it was very common to see weapons lying around in those days. My grandpa has many stories from the war tbh, he used to smuggle arms from Syria to Lebanon and sell it to civilians in the black market.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 August 2006 07:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211787 is a reply to message #211223] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 08:21 |
FMhalo
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Registered: January 2005
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I don't know what the media in the states show etc...
i'll be assuming you know israel is using chemical weapons, cluster munitions on civilian populations.
Nasrallah said: "The only way to stop rocket attacks was to stop the air raids and attacks on the civilians of Lebanon".
He has welcomed the IDF to settle any dispute man to man on the southern Lebanon border leaving civlians out of it.
I do feel sorry for the 500000 jews living in bomb shelters (if that number hasn't gone up) and all the jews who have fled. It is sad how a whole state of israel must suffer from the zionest regime. If israel wanted to wipe out hezbollah (which it has tried and failed miserably in the past and now) they would listen to nasrallah's demands and settle it on the southern border this way civilians in both sides wouldn't suffer.
Tel aviv is threatened to be hit if central beirut is hit (which it hasn't yet, the suburbs aren't considered beirut). If the zionist government decides to hit it then they just endangered a whole lot more civilians.
The point im trying to make here is suffering isn't necessary on both sides. Israel knows the rocket attacks stop when they stop bombing lebanese cities, towns, and civilians.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 August 2006 08:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211799 is a reply to message #211223] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 10:21 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
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FMHalo, the only problem with the rocket attacks, in my opinion, is that they are completely and totally worthless. In the last two weeks, Hezbollah has fired some 4,000 rockets in to Israel; I think 6-10 of them have actually hit anything other than a field.
If Hezbollah is trying to use this as levarage for a cease fire, I don't think Israel considers the rockets anything more than a fly in their soup.
Now, if they can actually make them a little more precise, and start causing real havoc in Israel, then they may have a bargaining chip.
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211823 is a reply to message #211223] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 13:25 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
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Not really... considering that Hezbollah fired the first shot, they're in no position to start playing the victim and asking for peace. "Oh, we won't attack you if yous top attacking us!" Bullshit. Those words come from the mouth of a man who attacks civilians intentionally as a matter of policy. Hezbollah is at fault, not Israel. The casualty count in Lebanon is as high as it is only because Hezbollah continues to use Lebanese civilians as meat-shields to protect their own sorry asses from the overwhelmingly superior and highly professional IDF. The moment they stop doing that, there will be no further civilian deaths in Lebanon- but it isn't likely to happen, because only the presence of civilians around their bunkers and launch sites prevents their untimely demise. A cease-fire will only be possible once Hezbollah ceases its attacks on Israel's civilians- deliberate attcks on civilians, not accidental deaths caused by the destruction of legitimate military targets.
When the time comes for terms to be set, it will be Israel setting the terms, not Hezbollah, and not the international community. We aren't talking about a country that gives half a rat's ass about what Germany or France or Russia or China thinks of its actions- because Israel doesn't. They never have; they go in and do what they need to in order to secure their borders and defend their civilian population- and anyone who gets in the way of that objective is in for a world of hurt. Just about the only country that Israel would listen to is the US- and only then because we're their primary source of equipment and ammunition (aside from beautiful home-grown units like the Kfir and Lavi fighters, and the kick-ass Merkava tank). And you know something else? I'm damn proud that the US government isn't getting in the way of our Ally's campaign. Good allies don't interfere, they assist. Our ally is under attack from a bunch of overglorified thugs, they showed some initiative, and they're kicking ass. Good for them.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211847 is a reply to message #211223] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 15:05 |
FMhalo
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Registered: January 2005
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In the 1st few days of the war Israel bragged that they would finish hezbollah in less than a week. They bragged that they got 50% of the rockets. They bragged that the rocket threat would be over soon. They set their hopes high that they would advance to the latani river. They killed nasrallah a few times a day.
Today we are in the 24th day of this conflict. Israel hasn't fullfilled any of it's objectives, hasn't been able to advance even a little bit into Lebanon despite having 10000 troops fighting with air support etc... Did you know that Hezbollah was only around 1000 fighters with only about 2000 or so in reserve? How is israel going to get to the latani river?
I know 100% the war will end in Lebanon's and Hezbollah's terms as Lebanon just rejected the latest UN resolution as it was a joke to Lebanon's dignity. Israel had 18 years to defeat a Hezbollah who had no military capabilty and they were defeated miserably. The 2000 withdrawl was an embarrassing defeat for Israel.
How many military bases and rocket launchers does a militia of a few thousand men have? Seriously... It seems that the "Khezbollah" have more military bases and rocket sites that it was more soldiers.
Some of you will remain in denial right now. When 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 10 years go by of another bloody war and Israel hasn't fullfilled it's military objectives then you may finally realise that Israel is waging war on a whole nation.
The "meat shield" excuse is an insult to our people. We have lived through years and years of war and we do not fear any aggressors. If Hezbollah dared to use our civilians as meat shields you will be rest assured that the civilian population would hang their heads on a post. Our civilians are armed with soviet era weapons and i assure you if Hezbollah used us as shields they wouldn't last a day.
but w/e i've said all that needs to be said if people want to remain pro Israeli go right ahead. Just remember that Israel can hit so many "rocket launchers and "Khezbollah" bases" before you start to realise they are just spewing bs. The same bs they were spewing day 1 of this war.
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211857 is a reply to message #211223] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 16:02 |
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Scythar
Messages: 580
Registered: February 2003
Location: Finland
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Hmh, it's very hard to pick a side in a war that's being fought thousands of kilometers away. All we know is what the media tells us, and it might be a lie, or the truth, or too one-sided view...it's nice to be able to read insightful comments like FMHalo's, who actually is involved. An average European/American citizen doesn't really know much about the history of the region....hell, it's hard enough to keep track of the basic history of your OWN country, let alone foreign ones. If I really wanted to side with either country and declare them as the ones who are right , I'd have to spend hours investigating the events and who started what and which attack is just a revenge of something that's happened earlier. I can pick a side just to feel smug, but I see no point in that. All I can say is "war is bad" and some other semi-naive truths like that, and hope things turn up right.
You're outside my monkeysphere 
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211858 is a reply to message #211847] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 16:21 |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
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| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 04 August 2006 19:17 |
That said, Kanezor, I completely disagree with your view on Israel's UN cooperation. To date, they have completely ignored or defied approximately 60 UN resolutions. Most having to do with treatment of Palestinians and unlawful expansion of communities.
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I suppose that's possible. I don't claim to be an expert on world politics; it's just that from what I've seen, Israel has complied with the U.N. stuff that I know of, and that's not a lot... pretty much just the ones where the U.N. has told Israel to back off. In any case, I think it would be excellent if there were some references as to where Israel has and has not complied with U.N. resolutions/mandates/whatever.
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 04 August 2006 19:17 |
I also disagree with your argument about those left in South Lebanon as being either "for hezbolla" or "idiots". Was this also your opinion of the 700,000 people left stranded in the path of Katrina? I'm betting that those Katrina welfare victims make more in a month than a lot of Lebanese make in a year. Do all of them even own a vehicle? You're leaving a lot of assumptions on the table as to why they are still there.
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The difference between the Katrina evacuees and the Lebanon refugees is that Katrina happened over a course of about three days. I know this because I was part of it: I did not evacuate simply because the roads were blocked, and it turned out that Katrina went so much farther north of my area that it turned out I wasn't in any danger.
Lebanon refugees have had three (going on four) weeks to evacuate. Lebanon isn't a very large country; in three weeks, I could have walked the 20 miles or so. The only real problem with this is that Syria has closed its borders. I highly doubt Israel would like refugees entering Israel's borders; terrorists have proven time and time again that they love to hide within civilians. So, it would be pretty hard to evacuate to a different country... one that hasn't been embattled (yet).
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27 |
Anyways back in the late 1970s a civil war broke out in Lebanon between the christians and muslims. Israel was pretty much to blame for the civil war though as they gave the sparks to get it going.
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What did Israel do to spark the civil war in Lebanon?
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27 |
Israel supposedly invaded to get rid of the PLO who fled to Lebanon.
Anyways during these years Lebanon didn't really have an army so Israel invaded with ease all the way up to beirut. During this time the Israeli commited lots of war crimes: Killing families, raping women, destroying homes etc...
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Sadly war crimes are often committed by troops that are outside their home. I figure that usually, any real atrocities will have been reported to the right figures though.
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27 |
Now, Hezbollah is a result of Israeli occupation and war crimes. Well anyways before Israel left Lebanon they took many thousand civilian prisoners with them and have them locked up in Israel and doing god knows what with them.
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Has Hezbollah, or even Lebanon for that matter, pressed for a U.N. investigation into the treatment of the prisoners that Israel has? I'll leave it up to Israel to decide who to take prisoner and who not to, but if you're claiming that Israel is doing "god knows what with them", then surely an investigation into such would reveal it?
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 15:27 |
Anyways after the war Hezbollah went political. They built hospitals schools etc... but basically they helped rebuild Lebanon but i have to say nobody built as much as hariri did.
Anyways after Israel left Lebanon they still occupied the sheba farm area. There was really no ceasefire tbh, Israeli drones and jetfighters would violate our airspace daily and Hezbollah was constantly trying to negotiate the release of the prisoners for 6 years. I do believe there was a little prisoner swap in 2004 but i can't really remember.
Other then Israeli soldiers crossing the border and getting into scuffles with hezbollah everything was good.
Anyways i like to press strongly at the fact that hezbollah is a result of israeli war crimes. Almost ALL od\f it's fighters had their families killed by israeli forces, mohers and sisters raped etc...
Anyways Hezbollah is pretty much less than a 1000 fighters with only a few thousands reserves. It is a maricle they are keeping 10000 israeli soldiers from invading.
The civilian shield thing imo is a load of bull since i talked to family in Lebanon. They even bombed my uncle's gas station lol...
Anyways the civilians do not flee because the Lebanese people put dignity first. Our people are not cowards and do not fear the israeli army, tbh at this point the civilians probably are waiting for a major ground invasion to move up so they can get in the fighting. Believe it or not almost every single civilian house keeps weapons such as rpgs, ak47s etc... incase of a israeli invasion. Most of these weapons are soviet erra though but the civilians have access to it.
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Cowards or not, if the civilians stay and fight, then they are no longer civilians. I think that's a point that a lot of people aren't grasping, and I think that's where the civilian shield idea came from: civilians staying, fighting, and then dying.
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 10:21 |
i'll be assuming you know israel is using chemical weapons, cluster munitions on civilian populations.
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Israel using chemical weapons would surprise me. Cluster weapons would also surprise me, but not as much. In any case, the only weapons I've seen the media show Israel using are definitely not cluster weapons.
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 10:21 |
Nasrallah said: "The only way to stop rocket attacks was to stop the air raids and attacks on the civilians of Lebanon".
He has welcomed the IDF to settle any dispute man to man on the southern Lebanon border leaving civlians out of it.
I do feel sorry for the 500000 jews living in bomb shelters (if that number hasn't gone up) and all the jews who have fled. It is sad how a whole state of israel must suffer from the zionest regime. If israel wanted to wipe out hezbollah (which it has tried and failed miserably in the past and now) they would listen to nasrallah's demands and settle it on the southern border this way civilians in both sides wouldn't suffer.
Tel aviv is threatened to be hit if central beirut is hit (which it hasn't yet, the suburbs aren't considered beirut). If the zionist government decides to hit it then they just endangered a whole lot more civilians.
The point im trying to make here is suffering isn't necessary on both sides. Israel knows the rocket attacks stop when they stop bombing lebanese cities, towns, and civilians.
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I definitely agree with you that a ground assault from Israel would be the better solution. Air superiority alone can not win a war; I believe this has been proven in just about all wars since World War 1.
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 18:05 |
In the 1st few days of the war Israel bragged that they would finish hezbollah in less than a week. They bragged that they got 50% of the rockets. They bragged that the rocket threat would be over soon. They set their hopes high that they would advance to the latani river. They killed nasrallah a few times a day.
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While I haven't noticed that Israel claims to have killed nasrallah, I have noticed that they did say that the fighting wouldn't last long and that they had destroyed most of the rockets. While I don't see an end to the fighting for at least another week or two (which, don't get me wrong... that *is* a tragedy); how are we supposed to know that Israel didn't in fact get most of the rockets... at least, at that time. For all that the rest of the world knows, Syria and Iran have been replenishing Hezbollah's supplies (and thus, the reason Israel has been destroying the civilian infrastructure).
| FMhalo wrote on Sat, 05 August 2006 18:05 |
Today we are in the 24th day of this conflict. Israel hasn't fullfilled any of it's objectives, hasn't been able to advance even a little bit into Lebanon despite having 10000 troops fighting with air support etc... Did you know that Hezbollah was only around 1000 fighters with only about 2000 or so in reserve? How is israel going to get to the latani river?
I know 100% the war will end in Lebanon's and Hezbollah's terms as Lebanon just rejected the latest UN resolution as it was a joke to Lebanon's dignity. Israel had 18 years to defeat a Hezbollah who had no military capabilty and they were defeated miserably. The 2000 withdrawl was an embarrassing defeat for Israel.
How many military bases and rocket launchers does a militia of a few thousand men have? Seriously... It seems that the "Khezbollah" have more military bases and rocket sites that it was more soldiers.
Some of you will remain in denial right now. When 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 10 years go by of another bloody war and Israel hasn't fullfilled it's military objectives then you may finally realise that Israel is waging war on a whole nation.
The "meat shield" excuse is an insult to our people. We have lived through years and years of war and we do not fear any aggressors. If Hezbollah dared to use our civilians as meat shields you will be rest assured that the civilian population would hang their heads on a post. Our civilians are armed with soviet era weapons and i assure you if Hezbollah used us as shields they wouldn't last a day.
but w/e i've said all that needs to be said if people want to remain pro Israeli go right ahead. Just remember that Israel can hit so many "rocket launchers and "Khezbollah" bases" before you start to realise they are just spewing bs. The same bs they were spewing day 1 of this war.
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What is "Khezbollah"?
Edit:
Aircraftkiller, I distincly recall you and I having a short discussion about my noticing that you always seem to insult people and that you think I'm stupid. Try looking at yours and my posts in this thread and think again.
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[Updated on: Sat, 05 August 2006 16:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211890 is a reply to message #211858] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 17:20 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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One of the main reasons that Hezbollah has a lot of support is because of the differences in media. Media from that region tends to show more about the victims and the damage then western media. However Hezbollah was not justified in its abduction of the Israeli soldiers. Hezbollah, according to my information, basically controls the nation. That means that things like gas stations must be destroyed to prevent them from being used by militants. The idea that Hezbollah doesn't use civilians as a meat shield is strange to me. Recently in the news there was a story about how a large apartment complex was hit. Around 50 civilians were killed. However, a video released by Israel showed rocket attacks coming from that building. If Israel hit it like it did, it would kill many civilians.
Israel tries to minimize civilian casualties. It spends millions on smart bombs to stay on target. However Hezbollah just fires rockets in the direction of Israel and hopes it kills someone.
There may be bad blood between Israel and Lebanon but I don't believe Israel would take thousands of civilians and torture them for fun.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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| Re: Israel, Lebanon, and of course... Hezbollah [message #211896 is a reply to message #211223] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 18:09 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Israel is a democracy- when the government does something that the people don't want done, the government gets changed. Unlike *certain* regions where thugs and terrorists run the show and assassinate anyone who disagrees with their agenda. The Israeli government can't just get away with anything; the people of Israel would not let them do that (which was precisely why Sharon changed his position back before he had his stroke- popular support was turning against the hardliners and towards more moderate policies).
The general feeling I got when I was in Israel towards the end of June (when this whole thing was just kicking off) was support for any action the government chose to take in recovering the abducted soldiers. Our family has a number of well-connected friends over in Israel, and from what I understand the public is still overwhelmingly in support of the campaign, despite the rocket attacks (and indeed because of the rocket attacks).
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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