| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191262 is a reply to message #188873] |
Sun, 26 February 2006 02:00   |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Karma: 0
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I definitely do *not* like this mod. Ramjets are supposed to be anti-light-vehicle. What this mod has done is made them not just not anti-light-vehicle, but more like useless-against-light-vehicles.
Orcas and Apaches move too fast. What you have done is made it so that anyone good enough at piloting an aircraft is pretty much unstoppable, especially if the enemy only has basic infantry. I would know, I recently played a game on Walls_Flying with an Apache and got around 70 kills before losing my Apache.
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191282 is a reply to message #188873] |
Sun, 26 February 2006 06:25 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Was the enemy barracks destroyed when you got all these kills? No offense, but getting 70 kills on Walls Flying with a fully functioning enemy base is still difficult. There are usually 2-3 PICs or Raveshaws on the walls + the snipers and basic infantry that will be gradually chipping away at your armour. It requires skillful use of cover to constantly repair your aircraft and knowing when to retreat. You would need to be an exceptional player to get 70 kills at the same time as doing all that.
However, if the enemy barracks was down, then it is ridiculously easy to fly around the enemy base, racking up kills forever. The basic rifle should be doing decent damage to light vehicles, to prevent the game from turning into "shooting fish in a barrel" whenever the barracks goes down. The armour changes have fucked this aspect of the game balance up, but in this case the problem is the (lack of) rifle damage to light vehicles, not the aircraft themselves.
Let's face it though... the flying levels are broken and have always been broken, because they were a shitty patch that wasn't balanced properly. The amount of damage that snipers did to light vehicles is just wrong, yet the aircraft are set up all wrong too. If you look outside the flying levels for a moment, the changes Crimson has made to her server have changed the game for the better. Buggies/Humvees are actually useful now (and no, using it as a cheap APC at the start doesn't make it useful... it makes it a redundant unit as the game progresses). I'm not sure if the MRLS/Artilley problem of them taking the old damage is fixed, but if they take less damage then you can drive one into the open space and actually do something interesting, instead of hiding behind a rock all game and point whoring. And most importantly, snipers are snipers now! The reward for being a good sniper should be the amount of kills you get, but they all want to have 100 kills *and* be MVP every game.... well tough! LOL.
So yeah, this mod is a step in the right direction but the flying levels are still broken. The only change is that aircraft are more powerful this time, not snipers. Neither situation is how it should be. Crimson, if you are interested in balancing the game better on your server, how much are you prepared to change? Actually, how much is it possible to change with a server-side thing? Because this armour fix is not solving the problem on it's own and in some cases is creating new problems (free guys doing shit all to light vehicles now, etc.) The homing rockets would be perfect if it wasn't for the fact that nobody can see them! All the newbs on the server, I don't think they even know that it exists... maybe you should put a memo up. Even then, it's still kind of dumb to have missiles that fly in the wrong direction.
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191285 is a reply to message #191282] |
Sun, 26 February 2006 07:39 |
PackHunter
Messages: 487
Registered: November 2004
Location: Holland
Karma: 0
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| m1a1_abrams wrote on Sun, 26 February 2006 08:25 |
The homing rockets would be perfect if it wasn't for the fact that nobody can see them! All the newbs on the server, I don't think they even know that it exists... maybe you should put a memo up. Even then, it's still kind of dumb to have missiles that fly in the wrong direction.
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Stealth tank and mrl missiles already home without the one that fires it seeying it. Can't you give mrl ammo to gunners though?
ok doesn't exactly work but you could at least set the whooooshing sound  [/edit]
[Updated on: Sun, 26 February 2006 07:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191302 is a reply to message #188873] |
Sun, 26 February 2006 11:27 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9735
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Don't you see what's happening? You have the basic game which is good. Not erfect but good. You want to make changes but those changes make new problems. You'll make changes to solve these new problems which will cause new problems. Eventually you'll end up with something worse as the original game (or the same). Fact is that everyone knows the imperfectnesses of the original game and acts upon them. This make the original game be the best choice either way.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191304 is a reply to message #188873] |
Sun, 26 February 2006 11:40 |
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terminator 101
Messages: 822
Registered: March 2003
Location: Toronto
Karma: 0
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I am going to have to agree. Look at for example Warcraft 3: Blizzard created the game, then they added about 2 balance patches that created some problems, so they made another patch that attempted to fix those problems, but it created more problems, and so on... I don't know if it was exactly like this, but from the number of balance patches that I saw for Warcraft 3, I can tell that something went wrog.
"It is time you saw the future, while you still have human eyes"
Cheaters only Cheat themselves!
so
Hasta la vista, baby!
[Updated on: Sun, 26 February 2006 11:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191359 is a reply to message #191348] |
Sun, 26 February 2006 23:55 |
Tunaman
Messages: 1190
Registered: January 2005
Karma: 2
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General (1 Star) |
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| Renx wrote on Sun, 26 February 2006 22:16 |
| m1a1_abrams wrote on Sun, 26 February 2006 19:17 |
Cool.  Also, is it possible server-side to change the Orca/Apache cannon to be like the APC gun, reload time and bullet spray? One of the things that makes the aircraft so overpowering is that the gun has no reload at all, combined with the accuracy. It's such a little thing really, but we all know that having to plan around your reloads quite often gives enemy infantry time to escape when you're chasing them in an APC.
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Nope, because then the missiles would use the same clip. I'm guessing that's why it's 999 in the first place.
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You could set the spraycost* of the missiles to be 0 though, so the only problem would be when you used the machine gun to empty your clip and then tried to fire missiles while reloading.
Edit: I accidentally said spraycount.. Not what I meant to say. 
[Updated on: Wed, 01 March 2006 22:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191591 is a reply to message #191302] |
Wed, 01 March 2006 18:24 |
Jellybe4n
Messages: 409
Registered: August 2004
Karma: 0
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| Goztow wrote on Sun, 26 February 2006 13:27 |
Don't you see what's happening? You have the basic game which is good. Not erfect but good. You want to make changes but those changes make new problems. You'll make changes to solve these new problems which will cause new problems. Eventually you'll end up with something worse as the original game (or the same). Fact is that everyone knows the imperfectnesses of the original game and acts upon them. This make the original game be the best choice either way.
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The way we have done it has worked pretty much as we wanted it to, it's been running around 10 months now and nobody ever complains at all. So your so called fact, which by the way is your opinion, not a fact, isn't accurate.
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191757 is a reply to message #191332] |
Fri, 03 March 2006 14:12 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Crimson wrote on Sun, 26 February 2006 18:18 |
I wanted to make sure that we had a long enough trial to really get a good look at it. Now the moderating staff on the server is voting on whether to keep the changes or go back to the old way. Currently it's 7 votes to revert and 3 votes to stay.
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I'm not saying you can't do this, but is it really fair to put the keep of this mod in the hands of just a handful of people, some of whom might not play that often nor have as much experience with the game as some of the regulars who come on your server? I don't think somebody's ability to moderate a game necessarily has any say on their ability to judge game balance and gameplay.
Not to mention that there are misbalances with the mod that negatively affect gameplay; misbalances that even mod staff have admitted to. I think you should revert to the original game until the misbalances have been theoretically fixed, then test the new mod on the server, see how that goes...
I think all that really needs fixed with this mod is shotgun and minigunner damage vs light armour, perhaps an upgrade to Nod minigunner vs light armour, and if possible a better seeking ability for rocket soldier rockets to be able to successfully hit moving aircraft. I think then the mod will be more enjoyable and balanced.
[Updated on: Fri, 03 March 2006 14:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191785 is a reply to message #188873] |
Fri, 03 March 2006 18:40 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Apologies for posting this here, but I can't reply to the thread at n00bstories.
Anyway, in response to Aircraftkiller over there, besides the fixes you already mentioned, the only things that stand out to me are the GDI Grenadier, Tiberium Auto Rifle Sydney, Nod Flamethrower and Chem Warrior. Personally I think they could all do with damage increase to infantry. Making the Nod Soldier equal to the GDI Soldier is only going to make these guys more useless, since there will be little reason for Nod to go for Flame/Chem at all. It would have to only be a slight increase, considering that Westwood made them either free, or inexpensive low level characters... but a Flamethrower should at least have a chance against what is supposed to be it's preferred target (infantry). Also, how about making the Grenadier, Flamethrower and Chem Warrior explode on death like in single-player? Is that possible?
Oh yeah, and about the Orca/Apache... fix the spray and if it's not possible to change the clip size for the chaingun, how about reducing the damage so it's say, 75% as powerful as the APC weapon. I know that sounds weird, but you have to take into account the damage that you will continue to inflict while an APC has to reload.
[Updated on: Fri, 03 March 2006 18:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191811 is a reply to message #188873] |
Sat, 04 March 2006 03:03 |
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RTsa
Messages: 484
Registered: January 2005
Location: Finland
Karma: 0
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| Quote: |
The administrator has disabled registration. Please try again later.
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So I couldn't reply there either. Here's something I thought when I read about the changes though.
Reducing the amount of points you get for just firing vehicles is good. However, I think you should also increase the amount of points you get from destroying vehicles by some percentage. Perhaps 50% would do it. That way the total amount of points you get from destroying a vehicle wouldn't decrease as much. This would encourage people to try to destroy vehicles even more.
I also agree with m1a1_abrams about flame throwers and chem troopers. Perhaps the tiberium Sidney as well. I guess grenadiers could do a bit more damage to infantry too, but otherwise they're ok in my opinion. Flametroopers should really get a boost though.
Sounds like this might be good. 
OMC NOB
Ragdoll Matrix
[Updated on: Sat, 04 March 2006 03:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Little "trial" on n00bstories servers - might be of general interest [message #191949 is a reply to message #188873] |
Sun, 05 March 2006 16:57 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Continuing to reply to Aircraftkiller's thread over at n00bstories... Sniper de7 brings up a good point. The only part of the points system that is broken is the absurd amount of points that snipers and APC-type weapons get for doing little damage. Tanks getting points for the level of damage they do to other vehicles is perfectly acceptable, and also necessary due to the way Renegade works. I think it's a bad idea to only give substantial points on vehicle destruction, because firstly vehicles can be constantly repaired, but also you are free to exit your tank just before destruction. On occasion this might result in you losing your tank, but you know as well as I do that good players will be able to abuse this to great effect. You can already abuse it in Renegade, but the points you lost just for taking damage makes it much less worthwhile.
In short, changing the points completely to be more like the old RenAlert system is bad idea within the context of Renegade's gameplay. You didn't have Hotwires/Technicians keeping vehicles alive all game and you didn't have crappy maps like Under/Field etc which really need the points gained in tank battles to stay interesting. Is it not possible to just reduce the points gained by snipers and machine guns, while leaving everything else the same? While it's a noble aim to encourage base destruction within the points system, many of the stock Renegade maps are not very conducive to base destruction anyway... so you'll only be making the game less fun.
[Updated on: Sun, 05 March 2006 17:00] Report message to a moderator |
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